From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 29944 invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2004 17:47:11 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 29941 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 17:47:10 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2004 17:47:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 13206 invoked by uid 43863); 20 Feb 2004 17:47:05 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 13180 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 17:47:04 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) From: ABX To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:48:04 +0100 Organization: MDK/Ogryzek Crew Reply-To: abx@abx.art.pl Message-ID: <3ohc30t8gsr2svonjqg48sn234rv3rei1e@4ax.com> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change Julian Smart : > The new name is wxWidgets Sad thing is that two book and one online polish-english dictionaries I = have at hands does not explain what "Widget" is :-( I'm a little surprized. It wasn't listed in final candidates in my observations. What was the reasons to exclude other propositions? ABX --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 30000 invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2004 17:48:37 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 29997 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 17:48:37 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2004 17:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 14439 invoked by uid 43863); 20 Feb 2004 17:48:35 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 14431 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 17:48:34 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Sender: jsmart@gotadsl.co.uk@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:57:07 +0000 To: wx-users@lists.wxwindows.org, wx-dev@lists.wxwindows.org, wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [wx-discuss] wxWindows name change Dear wxFolk, As you may be aware, the project is changing its name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. See: http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm The new name is wxWidgets: the page above explains why it was chosen. A colossal amount of time has now been spent on this issue, so we hope to put this behind us as soon as possible and get back to more interesting work. We would be grateful for any further discussion on this topic to be directed at the new mailing list wx-discuss (see http://www.wxwindows.org/maillst2.htm for subscription details). It'll take a while for us to change everything over to the new name but we'll keep the name change web page updated so it's clear what is changing with CVS and other services (no change at present). Sorry this is necessary, and thanks in advance for your patience during the transition. Regards, Julian ========================================================================= Julian Smart julian@anthemion.co.uk 3F1, 28 Gillespie Crescent, www.anthemion.co.uk Edinburgh, Midlothian, U.K., EH10 4HU +44 (0)131 229 5306 StoryLines: story structuring www.writerscafe.co.uk HelpBlocks: HTML help authoring www.helpblocks.com DialogBlocks: cross-platform dialogs www.anthemion.co.uk/dialogblocks ========================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 30606 invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2004 18:04:37 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 30603 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 18:04:37 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2004 18:04:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 28345 invoked by uid 43863); 20 Feb 2004 18:04:35 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 28314 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 18:04:34 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-ID: <40364C2F.60106@alldunn.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:04:31 -0800 From: Robin Dunn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030630 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org References: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <3ohc30t8gsr2svonjqg48sn234rv3rei1e@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: <3ohc30t8gsr2svonjqg48sn234rv3rei1e@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change ABX wrote: > Julian Smart : > >>The new name is wxWidgets > > > Sad thing is that two book and one online polish-english dictionaries I have > at hands does not explain what "Widget" is :-( widg·et n. 1. A small mechanical device or control; a gadget. 2. An unnamed or hypothetical manufactured article. It is also commonly used to describe objects in a GUI, what Microsoft calls controls. > I'm a little surprized. It wasn't listed in final candidates in my > observations. What was the reasons to exclude other propositions? Mostly it was doubt that the other names would be free of possible trademark issues in the future. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 30908 invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2004 18:13:12 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 30905 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 18:13:12 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2004 18:13:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8276 invoked by uid 43863); 20 Feb 2004 18:13:10 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 8232 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 18:13:09 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-ID: <40364E34.8030604@alldunn.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:13:08 -0800 From: Robin Dunn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030630 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org References: <01D0B91FC417D4119B610008C709ECFE012E2B2F@newman.bhmi.com> In-Reply-To: <01D0B91FC417D4119B610008C709ECFE012E2B2F@newman.bhmi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change Dave Webster wrote: > I assume this one will be trademarked around the world? Or this process > will repeat once someone else mounts a challenge. Of course that means > forming a legal entity for something to "own" the trademark......... > Julian is looking into the process for doing it. Until there is a new wxSF or whatever then his consulting company can own the trademark. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 11633 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2004 01:38:02 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 11630 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 01:38:02 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 01:38:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 7205 invoked by uid 43863); 21 Feb 2004 01:38:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 7196 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 01:37:59 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-ID: <4036B66E.9080001@osafoundation.org> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:37:50 -0800 From: Heikki Toivonen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org References: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.83.3.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig53860B1268923DB31EE71BC1" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.37 Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change --------------enig53860B1268923DB31EE71BC1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julian Smart wrote: > As you may be aware, the project is changing its > name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. > > See: > > http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm Hmm, after reading the document I am now confused. Typos? * In the first sentence, shouldn't you replace wxWidget with wxWindows? * Shouldn't the apologies sentence refer to wxWindows, or skip the name altogether? * Shouldn't the first bullet point say wxWindows? If you can't say wxWindows even in these instances, I think you should substitute the above cases with something like: * "Microsoft approached Julian Smart to open discussions about the original name of the wxWidgets name" * "Apologies to all users and developers for the short-term discomfort caused by the name change." * "Julian Smart and Robin Dunn will cease using the original name of the wxWidgets project by" Otherwise the document is confusing as you have to mentally replace some wxWidgets and not others, and people who come to this document later without all the background will be even more confused. Also a sure typo: "on their web sites do not need to [be] worried" -- Heikki Toivonen --------------enig53860B1268923DB31EE71BC1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFANrZyb8x8KoP+JuwRAoWdAJ9E0CPAWkvT3XT4YzpaiyDmc6yP3gCfSoNx BzxAvuX/oD4giVCF/ipEqAY= =SoU6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig53860B1268923DB31EE71BC1-- From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 21254 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:08 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 21251 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:07 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 07:39:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13429 invoked by uid 43863); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:04 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 13378 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:03 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) X-Sent: 21 Feb 2004 07:39:01 GMT From: "Curt Hibbs" To: , , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:39:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [wx-discuss] RE: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change Julian Smart wrote: > > As you may be aware, the project is changing its > name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. > > See: > > http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm > > The new name is wxWidgets: the page above > explains why it was chosen. I think there's a typo on this page. The first bullet item says: * Julian Smart and Robin Dunn will cease using the name wxWidgets by August 2004. I think you meant to say to cease using "wxWindows". Curt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 21263 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:23 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 21260 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:22 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 07:39:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13427 invoked by uid 43863); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:04 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-users-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-users@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-users@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 13379 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:03 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) X-Sent: 21 Feb 2004 07:39:01 GMT From: "Curt Hibbs" To: , , Subject: RE: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:39:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Julian Smart wrote: > > As you may be aware, the project is changing its > name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. > > See: > > http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm > > The new name is wxWidgets: the page above > explains why it was chosen. I think there's a typo on this page. The first bullet item says: * Julian Smart and Robin Dunn will cease using the name wxWidgets by August 2004. I think you meant to say to cease using "wxWindows". Curt --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please read http://www.wxwindows.org/mlhowto.htm before posting. To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-users-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-users-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 21281 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:39 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 21278 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:38 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 07:39:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 13439 invoked by uid 43863); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:04 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-dev-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-dev@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-dev@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 13380 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 07:39:03 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) X-Sent: 21 Feb 2004 07:39:01 GMT From: "Curt Hibbs" To: , , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:39:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change Julian Smart wrote: > > As you may be aware, the project is changing its > name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. > > See: > > http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm > > The new name is wxWidgets: the page above > explains why it was chosen. I think there's a typo on this page. The first bullet item says: * Julian Smart and Robin Dunn will cease using the name wxWidgets by August 2004. I think you meant to say to cease using "wxWindows". Curt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-dev-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-dev-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:14 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 22743 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2004 08:36:45 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 22740 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 08:36:45 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 08:36:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6311 invoked by uid 43863); 21 Feb 2004 08:36:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 6286 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 08:36:43 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040221083522.04064d70@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Sender: jsmart@gotadsl.co.uk@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:36:41 +0000 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart In-Reply-To: <4036B66E.9080001@osafoundation.org> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20040220164921.03925fb8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <4036B66E.9080001@osafoundation.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows name change At 01:37 21/02/2004, you wrote: >Julian Smart wrote: >>As you may be aware, the project is changing its >>name to avoid conflict with Microsoft. >>See: >>http://www.wxwindows.org/name.htm > >Hmm, after reading the document I am now confused. Typos? > >* In the first sentence, shouldn't you replace wxWidget with wxWindows? >* Shouldn't the apologies sentence refer to wxWindows, or skip the name >altogether? >* Shouldn't the first bullet point say wxWindows? > >If you can't say wxWindows even in these instances, I think you should >substitute the above cases with something like: > >* "Microsoft approached Julian Smart to open discussions about the >original name of the wxWidgets name" >* "Apologies to all users and developers for the short-term discomfort >caused by the name change." >* "Julian Smart and Robin Dunn will cease using the original name of the >wxWidgets project by" > >Otherwise the document is confusing as you have to mentally replace some >wxWidgets and not others, and people who come to this document later >without all the background will be even more confused. Yep, I did the global substitution too late at night... I'll make the corrections. Sorry for the confusion. >Also a sure typo: > >"on their web sites do not need to [be] worried" Thanks! Regards, Julian --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:15 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 30488 invoked by alias); 23 Feb 2004 19:56:49 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 30485 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 19:56:49 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 23 Feb 2004 19:56:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3439 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Feb 2004 19:56:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 3417 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 19:56:42 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-ID: <403A5AF8.1010804@alldunn.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:56:40 -0800 From: Robin Dunn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030630 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: AW: wxWindows name change Markus Kuehni wrote: > My thoughts exactly! > > --Mark > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Jorg B [mailto:solidstl@xs4all.nl] > > What about just WX ? ... > This was already suggested and dropped because it is already a common acronym for weather related things, domain names are not available, etc. Please see the wx-dev archives for a few thousand messages about the possible names and related issues. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Tue Feb 24 20:32:15 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 24194 invoked by alias); 24 Feb 2004 11:14:28 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 24191 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 11:14:27 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 11:14:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 22059 invoked by uid 43863); 24 Feb 2004 11:14:23 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 22050 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 11:14:22 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Message-ID: <403B3214.9030802@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:14:28 +0000 From: William Manley User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-discuss] cs-s.wxwindows I hope this hsn't been raised before, I did a quick google of the lists and couldn't find a reference to it. What will happen to the usenet group comp.soft-sys.wxwindows now that the name has changed? Thanks William Manley --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Wed Mar 3 10:49:11 2004 X-UIDL: 1078339665.11424_2.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 11422 invoked by alias); 3 Mar 2004 18:47:45 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 11419 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 18:47:44 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 03 Mar 2004 18:47:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 6761 invoked by uid 43863); 3 Mar 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Received: (qmail 6750 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 18:47:40 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:47:39 +0100 From: Gergely Kontra To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwindows.org Message-ID: <20040303184739.GA14864@mlabdial.hit.bme.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [wx-discuss] compatibility -- progress X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi! Will wxwidgets remain compatible with the old versions or can I expect some progress? Eg. when creating a list widget, creating the first and the other columns are differents... But it works without any install on windows, which is a big win, but I think it can be better (the concept...)... Gergo -- +-[ Kontra, Gergely PhD student Room IB113 ]---------+ | http://www.mcl.hu/~kgergely "Olyan langesz vagyok, hogy | | Mobil:(+36 20) 356 9656 ICQ: 175564914 poroltoval kellene jarnom" | +-- Magyar php mirror es magyar php dokumentacio: http://hu.php.net --+ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwindows.org From - Sat Mar 13 13:30:11 2004 X-UIDL: 1079213215.28897_2.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 28895 invoked by alias); 13 Mar 2004 21:26:55 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 28892 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 21:26:54 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 21:26:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 6251 invoked by uid 43863); 13 Mar 2004 21:26:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 6186 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 21:26:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO sunsite.dk) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 21:26:51 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Received: from [217.72.192.151] by sunsite.dk (MessageWall 1.0.8) with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 21:26:51 -0000 Received: from pd9557831.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.85.120.49] helo=web.de) by smtp.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.99 #614) id 1B2Geg-0007XS-00 for wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:26:50 +0100 Message-ID: <40537C86.3050805@web.de> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:26:30 +0100 From: herbert breunung User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org References: <403B3C74.4020500@maguma.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20040224151241.03bb4540@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <405308E8.30504@web.de> <40535553.9090800@alldunn.com> In-Reply-To: <40535553.9090800@alldunn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: deirdre_skye@web.de Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] wxDocs X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: thanks Robin, im on it. 1 quest left. im not so familiar with latex. it is enough only to send you the wxperl.tex? despite python sucks(and perl rules, letz check out the flame trowers) i've changed the wxwindows in the wxpython.tex should i it send also (seperatly) or will you rename it in all docs at once? kudos herbert > herbert breunung wrote: > >> hi >> too lazy to subscribe in wx-dev for one question i want to ask >> something to julian, robin or somebody >> like that what i have to know to contribute a page to the wxdocs. >> As an sideproduct of my ragings to better the wxperl help im >> currently writing an wxperl pedant to >> http://proton-ce.sourceforge.net/rc/wxwindows/docs/html/wx/wx500.htm#wxpython >> >> i must consult mattia and so on but i didnt thought of in which >> format this docu ist written. >> the linking between the pages and zhe names of the pages are >> indicating that is not generated by hand >> so what i hve to know to contribute a page to the wxdocs. >> kudos >> > > The docs are written in a subset of TeX, and are located in > .../docs/latex/wx, and are converted to the various formats using > tex2rtf located in .../utils/tex2rtf. Simply make your changes or > additions to the .tex files and then submit a patch to the tracker at > SourceForge: > > > http://wxwidgets.org/technote/patches.htm > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Sat Mar 13 14:40:09 2004 X-UIDL: 1079217348.30917_2.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 30915 invoked by alias); 13 Mar 2004 22:35:48 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 30912 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 22:35:47 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by gate.alldunn.com (208.151.246.211) with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 22:35:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7941 invoked by uid 43863); 13 Mar 2004 22:35:45 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 7868 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 22:35:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO sunsite.dk) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 22:35:44 -0000 X-MessageWall-Score: 0 (sunsite.dk) Received: from [217.72.192.209] by sunsite.dk (MessageWall 1.0.8) with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 22:35:44 -0000 Received: from pd9557831.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.85.120.49] helo=web.de) by smtp.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.99 #614) id 1B2HjK-0000ak-00 for wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:35:44 +0100 Message-ID: <40538CAB.9020306@web.de> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:35:23 +0100 From: herbert breunung User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org References: <403B3C74.4020500@maguma.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20040224151241.03bb4540@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <405308E8.30504@web.de> <40535553.9090800@alldunn.com> <40537C86.3050805@web.de> <405384AD.5090609@alldunn.com> In-Reply-To: <405384AD.5090609@alldunn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: deirdre_skye@web.de Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] wxDocs X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Robin Dunn wrote: > AS described in the technote, each distinct group of changes should > have their own patch. > i read it. and i thought that my post was written to show you that. my mother tongue is german so i have some problems. my question was: should i convert some pages on the way too that i cant read control to or will you make it via regex? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Tue May 25 10:26:01 2004 X-UIDL: 1085505782.29144_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 29120 invoked by alias); 25 May 2004 17:22:51 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 29068 invoked from network); 25 May 2004 17:22:28 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (thor.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.86]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 25 May 2004 17:22:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 9362 invoked from network); 25 May 2004 17:17:01 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 25 May 2004 17:17:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 25209 invoked by uid 43863); 25 May 2004 17:16:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 25004 invoked from network); 25 May 2004 17:16:12 -0000 Received: from thor.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (qmailr@130.225.247.86) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 25 May 2004 17:16:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 2228 invoked from network); 25 May 2004 17:14:20 -0000 Received: from pilabs.com (4.21.76.131) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 25 May 2004 17:14:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 10301 invoked from network); 25 May 2004 17:02:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pi36) (172.16.2.36) by 0 with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP; 25 May 2004 17:02:15 -0000 From: Dennis Kavanagh To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1085505287.26914.132.camel@PI36> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 25 May 2004 13:14:47 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Hits: -0.0 Subject: [wx-discuss] XProtocol vs RPC/XDR X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, I am wondering if I need to write the RPC/XDR part of an App hoping to execute a remote procedure or is that part and parcel of the GTK+ port of WxWindows. I do not see any RPC/XDR references and NO, I am not using the XML spec...and I do not see any X Protocol references either..?? Thank You dennisk@pilabs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Feb 18 03:23:49 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1108725606.2584_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 2575 invoked by alias); 18 Feb 2005 11:20:04 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 2501 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:46 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 18 Feb 2005 11:19:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 37571 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:42 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 11:19:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7621 invoked by uid 43863); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:37 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 7605 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:36 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 11:19:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 37322 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO abx.art.pl) (72.21.52.21) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 11:19:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22865 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 11:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO WLODEK) (195.205.156.74) by q.y.pl with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 11:19:30 -0000 From: ABX To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:18:52 +0100 Organization: wxWidgets/MegaPOV/MDK/Ogryzek Crew Message-ID: <5ijb11pet8gifovmttco3sntlea4vkd4qe@4ax.com> References: <20050210213431.19885.qmail@sunsite.dk> <7u0211lc8157nhdap2ph4llrlssk4ecp1j@4ax.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20050214230834.02d6cf90@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <6.0.0.22.2.20050216100055.02911d40@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20050216100055.02911d40@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Hits: -5.1 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] wxPalmOS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Julian Smart : > > Just readed this: http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3589.html > > Thanks -- let's hope their strategy pays off=20 Another interesting reading: http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/02/14/HNpalmsourceceo_1.html ABX --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 10:55:07 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114192463.27962_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 27954 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 17:54:12 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 27937 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 17:53:56 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 17:53:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 58366 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 17:53:54 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 17:53:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 10427 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 17:53:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 10411 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 17:53:50 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 17:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 58091 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 17:53:50 -0000 Received: from daffy.hampton.stcnet.com (HELO daffy.stcnet.com) (65.162.189.137) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 17:53:38 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.81] ([192.168.1.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by daffy.stcnet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3MHraWR011153 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:53:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <869d4d01bbbec6d6d936864120b908f0@stcnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org From: David Elliott Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:53:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] Havoc Pennington's comments on release X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi all, I'm going to go ahead and open up a little bit of wx 3.0 discussion on this list now. Still no specifics as I don't think anyone can handle that right now, but I wanted to point everyone to an article that hit Slashdot yesterday. Funny I didn't see it before writing almost the exact same thing about this project. Without further ado, Havoc Pennington's journal for April, specifically yesterday's (4/21) entries: http://log.ometer.com/2005-04.html -Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 11:15:07 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114193490.28584_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 28577 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 18:11:19 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 28561 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:10:56 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 18:10:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 69833 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:10:55 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:10:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 19241 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 18:10:52 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 19225 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:10:51 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:10:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 69603 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:10:51 -0000 Received: from outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net (24.234.0.9) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:10:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net [127.0.0.1]) by outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C762C1424E for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07700-07 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (ip68-108-46-68.lv.lv.cox.net [68.108.46.68]) by outmta-2.esr.lvcm.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87A31425C for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <698E274E-A1E6-4F0C-84F7-A14C437B809E@stcnet.com> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20050421210643.026d2c58@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <15af01c546af$c5de52b0$6401a8c0@kevin> <698E274E-A1E6-4F0C-84F7-A14C437B809E@stcnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kevin Ollivier Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:10:35 -0700 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lvcm.net X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi David, On Apr 21, 2005, at 10:34 PM, David Elliott wrote: > On Apr 21, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> Sorry, if folks feel this way, I'll just back off it for now and >> bring it up say, after the release of 2.6.1? I just thought that the >> long release cycles were an underlying cause of a lot of the release >> debates (i.e. --enable-unicode) and why some folks pushed so strongly >> on some of these issues. So, I guess I thought that by resolving the >> versioning issues we might be able to make people a little more >> willing to compromise on these things. But I realize in hindsight >> (always 20/20) that it was probably a bad time to bring this up. > > I think 3.0 is never going to happen because most of us have way too > much invested in the current code base. The only way I can see this > happening is if one person came up with a clearly superior > architecture and laid the foundation for a totally new toolkit. > Obviously the underlying implementations would use existing code but > the API would probably by necessity be different. Actually, my view of 3.0 is more limited then that, and it comprises basically a solidification and optimization of the existing ports. I do see some new additions (i.e. a native list ctrl on Mac/wxDataListView, some HIG layout helper classes, etc., hopefully wxHTML2) but I guess I never equated 3.0 to TNG, so to speak. Of course, that's just my idea of 3.0 and I do agree with you that wxWidgets TNG is not likely to happen in the current environment. I agree a new, separate project, is the way to go for TNG. I'd also say that for any new toolkit to make serious inroads into new markets, we need a quality RAD environment. Microsoft has VS, Apple has XCode/IB, and there's no equivalent yet in the open source world (outside of QT) that provides anything close, and that IMHO IS a real downer. For a lot of people, it's not just the API, it's the package that sells them. I think this could really hit big, because I've only seen Mac market-share increasing, and Linux is obviously gaining ground as well. If 95% of apps are written for Windows, that's a big potential market of "switchers" who are going to need a new toolkit, but they're going to want something that's as slick as IB/XCode or at least as GUI-fied as MSVS. > I've had some ideas floating around in the back of my head and I've > even put a few of them in to code but at best I'm still 2 years away > from getting my playground to a point where anybody would even want to > play in it. I'd be interested in hearing what direction you're thinking of taking things. I think it's not always so much keeping it a one man effort as making sure all contributors are on the same page before getting them involved. Discussing implementation and API design details is usually a good thing, but if all your devs are are in constant disagreement over the core goals of TNG are and the general approach towards meeting those goals, then you're going to have serious problems. ;-) > I think this means I'm probably going to have to officially announce > that wxCocoa work is going to truly go at a snails pace (as if it > hasn't already). wxMac has been cleaned up so significantly with this > release that wxCocoa is not as important to me as it once was. Of > course this is only stating what is probably already obvious as I've > been working on these new ideas rather than wxCocoa off and on for a > year now. > > Writing wxCocoa has been one hell of a great experience. Every time I > write code for wxCocoa I can't help but thinking how great a toolkit > Cocoa is and how much better wxWidgets could be if I were to borrow > some ideas from Cocoa and Objective-C. I think wxCocoa is a very strategic thing to have, actually. While it's true that Carbon won't be going anyplace anytime soon, I can see that 3-4 years down the road OS X will be getting less and less dependent on Carbon-based apps and thus the Carbon API will likely get less and less testing, development, etc. When I made the decision on what I wanted to work on, it was basically a call of what I thought could give me a working app fastest. But the answer to that question is not always the same as what's best for wxWidgets in the long term. There are still a few things left for 2.7 that I need to do, but I think once we solidify wxMac a bit more, people will be a little less in overdrive mode (as we've been over the past 12 months) and more willing to look at wxCocoa and see what's left to do. > For now I think the best thing for wxWidgets is to move to time based > minor releases. Let's shoot for 2.8 in 9 months and 2.10 9 months > after that. Concurrently with this I'd rather be working on my idea > for 3.0. Unfortunately, by its nature it's simply not going to be a > team effort until I've done a lot more work than I have so far. Maybe > it works out, you all like it, and it forms the basis for 3.0. Maybe > someone else is thinking like me and comes up with his own ideas of > what 3.0 should be and we go with that. Maybe we merge some ideas. > > Or maybe wxWidgets continues on the 2 series indefinitely. Worse > things could happen. After all, the API is totally decent, just not > my idea of what wxWidgets could potentially become. Yes, I think wxWidgets itself is in pretty good shape, overall. I think we can definitely make the API interface better, and the dev tools better, but the guts are for the most part pretty good, and the nice thing about doing a new interface is that you can keep the good, hide the bad, and just add whatever's left to make things happen. I think the major problem with TNG being part of wxWidgets itself is that you've got too much of an establishment already, and a defined userbase who have needs that have to (continue to) be met. (i.e. think of the backwards compatibility arguments) I think if you were to ask users (or even some devs) whether or not they'd like to chart new waters or just keep making the toolkit better, a lot would prefer to make the toolkit better and get frustrated by some TNG initiative as a risk and a potential time sink. So it's hard for established products to take risks like that, and of course that's why sometimes you need to just come out with something totally new and just make it so compelling that people will switch to it. ;-) Mac OS X So I actually see this TNG and wxWidgets as (to the user) two separate products. That TNG *uses* (or is based on) wxWidgets would be an implementation detail, but one that at the least would greatly reduce startup time. > Sorry if this message comes off as a downer. I just can't see myself > saying in 5 years how great 2.14 is over good ol' 2.6. I want to at > most see 2.10 be the last of the 2 series and my experience tells me > that the focus of this project is definitely maintenance of the 2 > series and not radical new ideas. I think you have a good point here. Especially if we can finally move towards wxWidgets extensions, something that should be easier now that we've got user bakefiles working. > Kevin, or anyone else for that matter, if you're intrigued by this > maybe we could take it over to wx-discuss so as to avoid a big long > thread on wx-dev. The bottom line is that I think maintenance of the > 2 series is going to have to be priority on wx-dev and that 3 is going > to have to come from either a loner or maybe a very closely knit group > of people with common goals in mind. The current development model is > not suitable for fostering creativity. > > We wouldn't be the first project to do this either. Samba had a very > successful TNG splinter group. I think we need to follow that model. In short, I totally agree with this. :-) Thanks, Kevin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 11:20:05 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114193762.28821_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 28807 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:52 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 28775 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:35 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 18:15:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 76880 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:34 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:15:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 22639 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:31 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 22625 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:30 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:15:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 76617 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 18:15:30 -0000 Received: from outmta-1.esr.lvcm.net (24.234.0.14) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 18:15:18 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outmta-1.esr.lvcm.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740EB24087; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outmta-1.esr.lvcm.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (outmta-1.esr.lvcm.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10750-06; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (ip68-108-46-68.lv.lv.cox.net [68.108.46.68]) by outmta-1.esr.lvcm.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE86824083; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:15:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770E3@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> References: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770E3@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8566d38348bf9c6decf1e9054dc030ab@tulane.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Stefan Csomor From: Kevin Ollivier Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:15:16 -0700 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lvcm.net X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: * Hi Stefan, I moved this over to wx-discuss. On Apr 22, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Stefan Csomor wrote: > Hi > > I'd like to have kind of build a overview page, that other places can > post their build info to. > > Great would be automated patch tests, ie if a patch xy is applied - do > all still builds still compile ? as quite often a patch solves a > problem > for someone and breaks a few other things, of course most of the time > it > breaks functionality and not builds, but all the same, it would be nice > if we could post a patch-diff and see whether it breaks builds. > > as for timings I think anything below 18 months for major releases is > just not feasible, Could you explain your thinking behind this? Also, when you say major releases, are you referring to releases like 2.8, or 3.0? Just want to be sure we're using same terminology. > and I think before going final at least 4 weeks with > no features added and only bug fixes having perhaps 4 release > candidates > are realistic (these are not beta releases but Release Candidates) Yes, as Robin said, this makes more sense and so long as we have automated build capacity I think it's an ideal way to do things. Thanks, Kevin > just my 0.02$ > > Stefan > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chris elliott [mailto:biol75@york.ac.uk] >> Sent: Freitag, 22. April 2005 09:13 >> To: wx-dev@lists.wxwidgets.org >> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy >> >> >> >> Robin Dunn wrote: >>> Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>> >>> The key is fully automated builds, and that the automated build >>> machinery is the same that is used to make the official releases. > Once >>> you do that you can make a test or preview release everyday if > you're so >>> inclined. (I've done one each day for the last three days.) >>> >> I've been building daily for soem time, and if there is a consesnus on >> what else needs building daily, I'll see if I can fit it in >> >> chris >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-dev-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: wx-dev-help@lists.wxwidgets.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-dev-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org > For additional commands, e-mail: wx-dev-help@lists.wxwidgets.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 12:50:05 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114199131.32194_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 32181 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 19:45:20 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 32138 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 19:44:56 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 19:44:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 33699 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 19:44:55 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 19:44:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 7989 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 19:44:52 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 7974 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 19:44:51 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 19:44:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 33413 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 19:44:51 -0000 Received: from mail.advancedconcepts.ch (HELO advanced-3ynlwj.advancedconcepts.ch) (217.193.147.27) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 19:44:40 -0000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 21:29:05 +0200 Message-ID: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F6@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [wx-dev] Future release strategy thread-index: AcVHZRDFwjufLxjrSByOGK145pLZDwADAjWA From: "Stefan Csomor" To: "Kevin Ollivier" , X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] RE: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi > > as for timings I think anything below 18 months for major releases is > > just not feasible, >=20 > Could you explain your thinking behind this? Also, when you say major > releases, are you referring to releases like 2.8, or 3.0? Just want to > be sure we're using same terminology. yes, a major release is 2.8, 3.0 etc, a minor release is 2.6.1 I think it is important not to make that cycle too short, because the amount of time invested into 'non-productive' tasks is quite considerable, and if we don't have enough creative time in between, we are not advancing enough. This creativity is not necessary 'more features' but also substantial cleanups, refactoring towards a better isolation of applications from the inner workings while preserving binary compatibility. My ideas about timing : once we have spun out a release we will need some calm, should be able to collect feedback and iron out things, so that about 6-8 weeks after release of 2.6.0 we can start counting down for a 2.6.1 release, doing perhaps 1-2 Release Candidates per week, until we are sure we have solved the issues without adding new problems. So perhaps 3 month after 2.6.0 we can start work on a new development branch, which IMHO should get about 10 - 12 months of heavy work, then perhaps 3-4 betas, having at least 2 weeks between each build, and then 4 weeks for release candidates again. Best, Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 13:40:05 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114202387.1204_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 1195 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:36 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 1177 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:19 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 20:39:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 63100 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:17 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 20:39:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3575 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:14 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 3562 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:13 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 20:39:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 62862 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 20:39:13 -0000 Received: from nova.oxonet.com (209.190.80.246) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 20:39:02 -0000 Received: from kevin (cpe-69-133-101-255.woh.res.rr.com [69.133.101.255]) (authenticated bits=0) by nova.oxonet.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3MKcxrW012532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:39:00 -0400 Message-ID: <03db01c5477b$437d45c0$6401a8c0@kevin> From: "Kevin Hock" To: References: <6.0.0.22.2.20050421210643.026d2c58@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <15af01c546af$c5de52b0$6401a8c0@kevin> <698E274E-A1E6-4F0C-84F7-A14C437B809E@stcnet.com> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:38:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Hits: 0.2 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi Dave, > I think the 2 series is still going to serve us well for at least > another 5 years. Most of what really needs to be done can easily be > shoehorned into the existing framework without breaking compatibility. > This is in contrast to what I would like to see done which cannot be > shoehorned into the existing framework. I do see one possible wrinkle: Longhorn/Avalon. While I'm sure win32 will be backwards supported by Longhorn, I suspect that for modern Windows development, there may be some significant changes needed to take advantage of new features and APIs (which developers will likely be clamoring for). I haven't followed Longhorn too closely so I really don't know, but it's being touted as "the next Windows 95" inasmuch that 95 was much different than 3.1. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen. :) Kevin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 16:00:12 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114210727.4930_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 4924 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:36 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 4907 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:20 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 22:58:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 28072 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:18 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 22:58:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 5233 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 5222 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:15 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 22:58:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 27764 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 22:58:15 -0000 Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (195.112.4.54) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 22:58:04 -0000 Received: from jules.anthemion.co.uk (62-3-244-18.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.244.18]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4277C257507 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 23:57:58 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20050422234045.025b4910@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> X-Sender: jsmart@gotadsl.co.uk@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 23:57:50 +0100 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org From: Julian Smart In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.2.20050421210643.026d2c58@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <15af01c546af$c5de52b0$6401a8c0@kevin> <698E274E-A1E6-4F0C-84F7-A14C437B809E@stcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: I agree that the start of a new project like wxTNG is quite different from a mature project and the need for creative freedom is important. Separating it from mainstream wxWidgets development is good, and will relieve a lot of pressure for compatibility, etc. I'm heartened that a long-term view of 2.x is also taken. It would be good to let a number of different wxTNG visions develop, and see what the most promising approach is. Then clusters of developers may form around particular versions of wxTNG, and hopefully order will eventually emerge from the creative chaos! So, I don't think there's any harm in creating as many play areas in CVS as people need. Keeping them within the wxWidgets 'brand' (and CVS area) would make a nice statement about the project being forward-looking while not panicking the outside world into thinking the project is somehow fragmenting. One approach may well be to treat current wxWidgets as a widget set that can be used as low-level layer; it might allow concentration on the new stuff. But whatever works... RAD tool -- from past experience a big job and difficult to get finished, but if the wxTNG framework makes that easy, then maybe this time will be different from the others. Regards, Julian At 19:10 22/04/2005, you wrote: >Hi David, > >On Apr 21, 2005, at 10:34 PM, David Elliott wrote: > >>On Apr 21, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>>Sorry, if folks feel this way, I'll just back off it for now and bring >>>it up say, after the release of 2.6.1? I just thought that the long >>>release cycles were an underlying cause of a lot of the release debates >>>(i.e. --enable-unicode) and why some folks pushed so strongly on some of >>>these issues. So, I guess I thought that by resolving the versioning >>>issues we might be able to make people a little more willing to >>>compromise on these things. But I realize in hindsight (always 20/20) >>>that it was probably a bad time to bring this up. >> >>I think 3.0 is never going to happen because most of us have way too much >>invested in the current code base. The only way I can see this happening >>is if one person came up with a clearly superior architecture and laid >>the foundation for a totally new toolkit. >>Obviously the underlying implementations would use existing code but the >>API would probably by necessity be different. > >Actually, my view of 3.0 is more limited then that, and it comprises >basically a solidification and optimization of the existing ports. I do >see some new additions (i.e. a native list ctrl on Mac/wxDataListView, >some HIG layout helper classes, etc., hopefully wxHTML2) but I guess I >never equated 3.0 to TNG, so to speak. Of course, that's just my idea of >3.0 and I do agree with you that wxWidgets TNG is not likely to happen in >the current environment. I agree a new, separate project, is the way to go >for TNG. > >I'd also say that for any new toolkit to make serious inroads into new >markets, we need a quality RAD environment. Microsoft has VS, Apple has >XCode/IB, and there's no equivalent yet in the open source world (outside >of QT) that provides anything close, and that IMHO IS a real downer. For a >lot of people, it's not just the API, it's the package that sells them. I >think this could really hit big, because I've only seen Mac market-share >increasing, and Linux is obviously gaining ground as well. If 95% of apps >are written for Windows, that's a big potential market of "switchers" who >are going to need a new toolkit, but they're going to want something >that's as slick as IB/XCode or at least as GUI-fied as MSVS. > >>I've had some ideas floating around in the back of my head and I've even >>put a few of them in to code but at best I'm still 2 years away from >>getting my playground to a point where anybody would even want to play in it. > >I'd be interested in hearing what direction you're thinking of taking >things. I think it's not always so much keeping it a one man effort as >making sure all contributors are on the same page before getting them >involved. Discussing implementation and API design details is usually a >good thing, but if all your devs are are in constant disagreement over the >core goals of TNG are and the general approach towards meeting those >goals, then you're going to have serious problems. ;-) > >>I think this means I'm probably going to have to officially announce that >>wxCocoa work is going to truly go at a snails pace (as if it hasn't >>already). wxMac has been cleaned up so significantly with this release >>that wxCocoa is not as important to me as it once was. Of course this is >>only stating what is probably already obvious as I've been working on >>these new ideas rather than wxCocoa off and on for a year now. >> >>Writing wxCocoa has been one hell of a great experience. Every time I >>write code for wxCocoa I can't help but thinking how great a toolkit >>Cocoa is and how much better wxWidgets could be if I were to borrow some >>ideas from Cocoa and Objective-C. > >I think wxCocoa is a very strategic thing to have, actually. While it's >true that Carbon won't be going anyplace anytime soon, I can see that 3-4 >years down the road OS X will be getting less and less dependent on >Carbon-based apps and thus the Carbon API will likely get less and less >testing, development, etc. When I made the decision on what I wanted to >work on, it was basically a call of what I thought could give me a working >app fastest. But the answer to that question is not always the same as >what's best for wxWidgets in the long term. > >There are still a few things left for 2.7 that I need to do, but I think >once we solidify wxMac a bit more, people will be a little less in >overdrive mode (as we've been over the past 12 months) and more willing to >look at wxCocoa and see what's left to do. > >>For now I think the best thing for wxWidgets is to move to time based >>minor releases. Let's shoot for 2.8 in 9 months and 2.10 9 months after >>that. Concurrently with this I'd rather be working on my idea for >>3.0. Unfortunately, by its nature it's simply not going to be a team >>effort until I've done a lot more work than I have so far. Maybe it >>works out, you all like it, and it forms the basis for 3.0. Maybe >>someone else is thinking like me and comes up with his own ideas of what >>3.0 should be and we go with that. Maybe we merge some ideas. >> >>Or maybe wxWidgets continues on the 2 series indefinitely. Worse things >>could happen. After all, the API is totally decent, just not my idea of >>what wxWidgets could potentially become. > >Yes, I think wxWidgets itself is in pretty good shape, overall. I think we >can definitely make the API interface better, and the dev tools better, >but the guts are for the most part pretty good, and the nice thing about >doing a new interface is that you can keep the good, hide the bad, and >just add whatever's left to make things happen. > >I think the major problem with TNG being part of wxWidgets itself is that >you've got too much of an establishment already, and a defined userbase >who have needs that have to (continue to) be met. (i.e. think of the >backwards compatibility arguments) I think if you were to ask users (or >even some devs) whether or not they'd like to chart new waters or just >keep making the toolkit better, a lot would prefer to make the toolkit >better and get frustrated by some TNG initiative as a risk and a potential >time sink. So it's hard for established products to take risks like that, >and of course that's why sometimes you need to just come out with >something totally new and just make it so compelling that people will >switch to it. ;-) Mac OS X > >So I actually see this TNG and wxWidgets as (to the user) two separate >products. That TNG *uses* (or is based on) wxWidgets would be an >implementation detail, but one that at the least would greatly reduce >startup time. > >>Sorry if this message comes off as a downer. I just can't see myself >>saying in 5 years how great 2.14 is over good ol' 2.6. I want to at most >>see 2.10 be the last of the 2 series and my experience tells me that the >>focus of this project is definitely maintenance of the 2 series and not >>radical new ideas. > >I think you have a good point here. Especially if we can finally move >towards wxWidgets extensions, something that should be easier now that >we've got user bakefiles working. > >>Kevin, or anyone else for that matter, if you're intrigued by this maybe >>we could take it over to wx-discuss so as to avoid a big long thread on >>wx-dev. The bottom line is that I think maintenance of the 2 series is >>going to have to be priority on wx-dev and that 3 is going to have to >>come from either a loner or maybe a very closely knit group of people >>with common goals in mind. The current development model is not suitable >>for fostering creativity. >> >>We wouldn't be the first project to do this either. Samba had a very >>successful TNG splinter group. I think we need to follow that model. > >In short, I totally agree with this. :-) > >Thanks, > >Kevin > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org >For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org > > ========================================================================= Julian Smart julian@anthemion.co.uk 28/5 Gillespie Crescent, Edinburgh, www.anthemion.co.uk Midlothian, U.K., EH10 4HU +44 (0)131 229 5306 Writer's Cafe: power tools for writers www.writerscafe.co.uk HelpBlocks: HTML help authoring www.helpblocks.com DialogBlocks: cross-platform dialogs www.anthemion.co.uk/dialogblocks ========================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 16:20:10 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114211714.5527_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 5507 invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2005 23:15:09 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 5470 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 23:14:53 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 22 Apr 2005 23:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 34773 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 23:14:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 12512 invoked by uid 43863); 22 Apr 2005 23:14:49 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 12501 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 23:14:49 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 23:14:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 34539 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2005 23:14:49 -0000 Received: from ms-smtp-01-qfe0.socal.rr.com (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com) (66.75.162.133) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2005 23:14:38 -0000 Received: from users.sf.net (cpe-66-75-62-149.san.res.rr.com [66.75.62.149]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j3MNEZFf013834 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:14:34 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Greg Noel To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <4A5174DF-B384-11D9-98FF-000393ABC40E@users.sf.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: On Friday, Apr 22, 2005, at 13:32 US/Pacific, David Elliott wrote: > ... I would like to share some of my thoughts. Unfortunately, I don't > get the impression that anyone else here has been seriously looking > towards the blue skies. I could be wrong though. For what it's worth, I wrote up some of my thoughts some time ago (about the timeframe of 2.4.0). It was a bit surprising to me, but I found that they needed little tweaking to bring them up to date. They're at http://simtech.sf.net/wx/ even though they still need some editing. If you have any comments or questions about the suggestions or ideas for improving the document, I'd be glad to discuss it. Although it's not in a good format for it, I'd like to nominate the page as the start for a wxTNG specification. > A RAD environment ... Hmmm, I should have included that, but I'm absolutely in favor of some sort of GUI development tool(s) so that layouts can be created quickly. Note that it need not even be in C++; Python would be a perfectly fine language for the tool(s). Hope this helps, -- Greg Noel, retired UNIX guru --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 18:45:24 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114220606.9829_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 9823 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:24 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 9807 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:19 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 01:43:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 2314 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:17 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 01:43:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 14609 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:14 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 14597 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 01:43:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 1949 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (195.41.46.237) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 01:43:10 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (0x535b9b05.hrnxx13.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.91.155.5]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9E3262832 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:43:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4269A82D.4070206@riis.as> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:43:09 +0200 From: Brian Ravnsgaard Riis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org References: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F6@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> In-Reply-To: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F6@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] RE: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Stefan Csomor wrote: > Hi > > >>>as for timings I think anything below 18 months for major releases > > is > >>>just not feasible, >> >>Could you explain your thinking behind this? Also, when you say major >>releases, are you referring to releases like 2.8, or 3.0? Just want to >>be sure we're using same terminology. > > > yes, a major release is 2.8, 3.0 etc, a minor release is 2.6.1 Actually, I don't think we're all on the same level then. So far, from what I understand, wx has used the versioning system used by the linux kernel: Major.Minor.Revision In this case an odd Minor is a development cycle, while an even Minor is a release series. From what you write above you seem to expect 3.0 to follow 2.8 in the release cycles. More appropriate would be 2.10! 3.0 would signify basically a complete rewrite *of the entire toolkit*!! Which, by the way, is unlikely to happen anytime soon. As someone pointed out: Too much code by too many people is invested in wx2. All this said, I beleive you are talking about releasing the next 2.x.0 series at an interval of no less than 18 months. This, IMO, is *way* too long. Rather, I think wx should think release cycles in the same terms as the linux kernel team does: Release early, release often. As someone else pointed out: For the past year or so, a common response to support requests for wx2.4.2 was "Solved in CVS HEAD, and you should really be using this anyway, since it's *much* better." Given the "crew" on this project, I'm not exactly suggesting monthly releases or anything, but likely not much more than 6 months either. As a by-the-way, this would probably generate somewhat "free" publicity as well (instead of "that toolkit is o-o-o-ld. last 'release' is two years and counting). > Best, > > Stefan -- /Brian Riis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 21:10:15 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114229163.13497_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 13490 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 04:06:01 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 13475 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:05:56 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 04:05:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 56140 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:05:54 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:05:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 13741 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 04:05:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 13721 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:05:49 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:05:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 55903 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:05:49 -0000 Received: from daffy.hampton.stcnet.com (HELO daffy.stcnet.com) (65.162.189.137) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:05:45 -0000 Received: from [192.168.17.203] (ip68-225-188-40.hr.hr.cox.net [68.225.188.40]) (authenticated bits=0) by daffy.stcnet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j3N45hhF022410 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:05:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <20050422192725.GA15284@hank.shelbyville.oz> References: <20050422152539.36585.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <022542ce79a3f79e83668232220c7bd3@stcnet.com> <20050422192725.GA15284@hank.shelbyville.oz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <87d6d1eb7ee4852e93fdcf94e16ab254@stcnet.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Elliott Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:05:41 -0400 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: On Apr 22, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Ron wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:21:53PM -0400, David Elliott wrote: >> Indeed I have been doing anything goes in my own source tree. And so >> have you, and so have, I imagine, a lot of other people. >> >> It would be nice to have some way of sharing this with each other >> aside >> from posting code snippets to one of the lists. Then again, maybe the >> cost of maintaining the branch is higher than the benefits. > > The conclusions you've come to, and the direction you are eyeing > I pretty much took wholesale after the 2.4 release. For some of > the things I needed at least, it was evident wx needed some very > low level repairs, and that could not be fixed retroactively. > > I think you are right about the amount of time it will take to > get this off the ground, and the sort of approach it will need. > Exactly. It is imperative that we explore new approaches. I am glad that this time around, contrary to after the 2.4 release, there seems to be a lot of support for this. > If you can come up with a proposal for a basic foundation that > (enough) people agree is basically sound, I would have no problem > at all with giving you your own branch of cvs, where you have the > final say on _all_ commits and design issues, to try to flesh them > out where they might attract comment. > Sure. I mean, of course I could obviously make my own branch in CVS any time I wanted to. It's too bad the STONE_AGE tags are already taken. ;-) I think what you are trying to say is that you would like to see a clear and concise plan first before we start jumping in to this. > There are two separate issues here already and I hope people don't > confuse them too much. One is wx2.6 really is too mature for hack > and slash development to continue for much longer. I am strongly > of the opinion that few new things should go into the (conservative) > 2.7 tree, that have not been _completely_ implemented and tested > in the home(s) of their creator(s). If anything, 2.7 should probably > be a process of sifting out the chaff and making the lib more lean > and focussed on the things it still does well. > Agreed. I think with a few exceptions, most of us are headed into maintenance mode. That's why a TNG tree makes sense. Now this does not mean that all new features need to cease on the 2 series. Indeed, just like 2.6 is an incremental improvement over 2.4, 2.8 will be an incremental improvement over 2.6. TNG will be all new. > The other is that you cannot grow a new api by committee. Even with > one that works. Lots of advisors can be great, but without a clear > vision to lead through the hard parts (or a clear candidate to clone), > this will probably never fly. I think David has a clear enough head > about most things (except perhaps my choice of opening phrase ;), and > has seen enough of the way we work (without being borg'ed by it), and > a wealth of experience with possibly the most researched framework > in common use. And he most definitely doesn't want to follow someone > else :-) > I do have a clear vision about where I want to go with TNG. > I think the cost of adding another branch like this, where he might > have the freedom to get things done unimpeded for a while is > insignificant compared to the potential gain. None of us seem to > be able to do much here without bumping into something that someone > else is doing, so this might be good in a lot of ways. It's impossible > to develop conflicting ideas in the same source tree, and we clearly > have plenty of them. Its a shame to dismiss half of them without > decent testing just because they are 'not mine'. > Right. There has been a lot of butting of heads lately and I think some of it can be attributed to some pent up restlessness to do something exciting. > But yes, I think the first question is, can you woo a small team with > a proposal... :-) If you can, the net-space is a minor issue. > "Anything goes" doesn't seem to conjure the right image for many I > suspect, but I don't think that is quite what you had in mind either... > No, anything goes isn't exactly what I meant to say. What I do mean is that ideas should be considered. I'll qualify that with the reality that there will be conflicting goals. But as you say above, design by committee isn't good either. I like your idea to do this more formally so I'll come up with something before next weekend which outlines the basic ideas. -Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 21:25:16 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114230204.13841_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 13834 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:22 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 13819 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:17 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 04:23:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 62142 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:15 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:23:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19810 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 19794 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:11 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:23:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 61909 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:23:11 -0000 Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (68.230.240.35) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:23:06 -0000 Received: from biscuit.chronic ([68.225.188.40]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050423042305.PGPJ20878.lakermmtao04.cox.net@biscuit.chronic> for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:23:05 -0400 Received: from [192.168.17.203] ([192.168.17.203]) by biscuit.chronic (8.13.1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3N4N42k020113 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:23:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <4269A82D.4070206@riis.as> References: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F6@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> <4269A82D.4070206@riis.as> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <91f3754cd29a130f020c8e96161fb56c@cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Elliott Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:23:03 -0400 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] RE: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: On Apr 22, 2005, at 9:43 PM, Brian Ravnsgaard Riis wrote: > Stefan Csomor wrote: >> Hi >>>> as for timings I think anything below 18 months for major releases >> is >>>> just not feasible, >>> >>> Could you explain your thinking behind this? Also, when you say major >>> releases, are you referring to releases like 2.8, or 3.0? Just want >>> to >>> be sure we're using same terminology. >> yes, a major release is 2.8, 3.0 etc, a minor release is 2.6.1 > > Actually, I don't think we're all on the same level then. So far, from > what I understand, wx has used the versioning system used by the linux > kernel: > > Major.Minor.Revision > Well, technically yes but of course within the 2 series the overall minor release is major. We could always take a page from the Sun handbook (hah, just kidding). > In this case an odd Minor is a development cycle, while an even Minor > is a release series. From what you write above you seem to expect 3.0 > to follow 2.8 in the release cycles. More appropriate would be 2.10! > 3.0 would signify basically a complete rewrite *of the entire > toolkit*!! Which, by the way, is unlikely to happen anytime soon. As > someone pointed out: Too much code by too many people is invested in > wx2. > Well, realistically no it's not. But I am trying to lay the foundation for 3.0 to happen sooner rather than later. > All this said, I beleive you are talking about releasing the next > 2.x.0 series at an interval of no less than 18 months. This, IMO, is > *way* too long. Rather, I think wx should think release cycles in the > same terms as the linux kernel team does: Release early, release > often. As someone else pointed out: For the past year or so, a common > response to support requests for wx2.4.2 was "Solved in CVS HEAD, and > you should really be using this anyway, since it's *much* better." > Given the "crew" on this project, I'm not exactly suggesting monthly > releases or anything, but likely not much more than 6 months either. > > As a by-the-way, this would probably generate somewhat "free" > publicity as well (instead of "that toolkit is o-o-o-ld. last > 'release' is two years and counting). I agree with you and disagree with Stefan. We have to do release early release often. Given that most people seem to be using CVS HEAD anyway I hardly see what the difference is. I get the impression that 100% source and binary compatibility is no where near as important to our users as a toolkit with frequent updates. Ideally of course we could have both but that's a TNG issue. -Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 21:50:07 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114231612.14364_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 14357 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:51 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 14342 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:46 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 04:46:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 73013 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:45 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:46:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 28950 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:42 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 28938 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:41 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:46:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 72772 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 04:46:41 -0000 Received: from lakermmtao03.cox.net (68.230.240.36) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 04:46:37 -0000 Received: from biscuit.chronic ([68.225.188.40]) by lakermmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050423044634.BONO18229.lakermmtao03.cox.net@biscuit.chronic> for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:46:34 -0400 Received: from [192.168.17.203] ([192.168.17.203]) by biscuit.chronic (8.13.1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j3N4kX61020122 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:46:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <03db01c5477b$437d45c0$6401a8c0@kevin> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20050421210643.026d2c58@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <15af01c546af$c5de52b0$6401a8c0@kevin> <698E274E-A1E6-4F0C-84F7-A14C437B809E@stcnet.com> <03db01c5477b$437d45c0$6401a8c0@kevin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0a990e9b5343660152de1a29f2b205d9@cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Elliott Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:46:33 -0400 To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: Re: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: On Apr 22, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Kevin Hock wrote: > Hi Dave, > >> I think the 2 series is still going to serve us well for at least >> another 5 years. Most of what really needs to be done can easily be >> shoehorned into the existing framework without breaking compatibility. >> This is in contrast to what I would like to see done which cannot be >> shoehorned into the existing framework. > > I do see one possible wrinkle: Longhorn/Avalon. While I'm sure win32 > will > be backwards supported by Longhorn, I suspect that for modern Windows > development, there may be some significant changes needed to take > advantage > of new features and APIs (which developers will likely be clamoring > for). > I've seen a few things here and there. I guess the big new thing is the compositing. But then, we've already encountered that and accounted for it in the API due to wxMac and wxCocoa. > I haven't followed Longhorn too closely so I really don't know, but > it's > being touted as "the next Windows 95" inasmuch that 95 was much > different > than 3.1. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen. :) > It's probably true. Windows 95 wasn't all that much different from 3.11. -Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 22:35:13 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114234218.15574_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 15566 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:16 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 15537 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:10 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 05:30:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 92041 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:09 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:30:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 15782 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:05 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 15745 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:03 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:30:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 91556 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:30:03 -0000 Received: from mail.advancedconcepts.ch (HELO advanced-3ynlwj.advancedconcepts.ch) (217.193.147.27) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:29:59 -0000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:14:23 +0200 Message-ID: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F8@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [wx-discuss] release-timings was RE: [wx-dev] Future release strategy thread-index: AcVHo6UkvoHbe4BOT/SxhnL4OJx4DQAHg55A From: "Stefan Csomor" To: X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: [wx-discuss] release-timings was RE: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi > Actually, I don't think we're all on the same level then. So far, from > what I understand, wx has used the versioning system used by the linux > kernel: >=20 > Major.Minor.Revision >=20 > In this case an odd Minor is a development cycle, while an even Minor is > a release series. From what you write above you seem to expect 3.0 to > follow 2.8 in the release cycles. More appropriate would be 2.10! 3.0 > would signify basically a complete rewrite *of the entire toolkit*!! > Which, by the way, is unlikely to happen anytime soon. As someone > pointed out: Too much code by too many people is invested in wx2. the reason I put 3.0 after 2.8 is just because we don't have more people and once main development has switched. So it is more of an organisational sequence. > All this said, I beleive you are talking about releasing the next 2.x.0 > series at an interval of no less than 18 months. This, IMO, is *way* too > long. Rather, I think wx should think release cycles in the same terms > as the linux kernel team does: Release early, release often. As someone > else pointed out: For the past year or so, a common response to support > requests for wx2.4.2 was "Solved in CVS HEAD, and you should really be > using this anyway, since it's *much* better." Given the "crew" on this > project, I'm not exactly suggesting monthly releases or anything, but > likely not much more than 6 months either. having people using CVS HEAD for their applications is just a consequence of the current situation, it is not something I really feel proud of. 2.4 was released in Dec 2002 , 2.6 is released now, so this is about 28 months, which is definitely way too long, and it has not been earlier than perhaps about 10-12 months from now that we had to start giving this reply. I've detailed why I think it is important to have a longer term, not between 2.6.0 and 2.6.1 but between 2.6 and 2.8. If we decide that we don't want to have too much 'new' in 2.8 then this can be shorter, but as I said - then I think it is not worth the 'unproductive' work involved. And the only thing it would be called 2.8 instead of 2.6.6 would be binary compatibility. Which again reflects rather our architectural defects. Anything shorter than 12 months between major releases will have bad effects on either quality or content. Best, Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 23:00:16 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114235980.16628_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 16620 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:38 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 16603 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:34 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 05:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 9200 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:32 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:59:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28886 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:30 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 28863 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:29 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:59:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 8922 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 05:59:29 -0000 Received: from mail.advancedconcepts.ch (HELO advanced-3ynlwj.advancedconcepts.ch) (217.193.147.27) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 05:59:25 -0000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:43:49 +0200 Message-ID: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770F9@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [wx-discuss] release-timings thread-index: AcVHo6UkvoHbe4BOT/SxhnL4OJx4DQAHg55AAAEpcmA= From: "Stefan Csomor" To: X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: RE: [wx-discuss] release-timings X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi sorry I did not reply about the numbering from linus' posting about the new kernel numbering / stable scheme : " - 2.6.: even at all levels, aim for having had minimally intrusive patches leading up to it (timeframe: a week or two) with the odd numbers going like: - 2.6.: still a stable kernel, but accept bigger changes leading up to it (timeframe: a month or two). - 2..x: aim for big changes that may destabilize the kernel for several releases (timeframe: a year or two) - .x.x: Linus went crazy, broke absolutely _everything_, and rewrote the kernel to be a microkernel using a special message-passing version of Visual Basic. (timeframe: "we expect that he will be released from the mental institution in a decade or two"). " also for us 3.X was always our notion of 'breaking things' , the degree of which is of course a matter of personal interpretation... so when I meant major release I meant 2.6 to 2.8 which in linux terms would be a 'minor' one. But for me as the time involved it is major, while a 2.6.2 would be a minor release for me. btw. the release cycle would be somewhat different of course, if there was some kind of an intermediate 'distributor' that did all the testings and prep. for release work that we have to do ourselves. SUSE does not have the same release cycle as the linux kernel has. But alas, we do it 'All-in-One' so we cannot 'fire and forget' Best, Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Fri Apr 22 23:40:06 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114238302.17312_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 17305 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:21 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 17290 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:14 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 06:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24385 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:12 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 06:38:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 15134 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 15118 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:07 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 06:38:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 24180 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 06:38:07 -0000 Received: from mail.advancedconcepts.ch (HELO advanced-3ynlwj.advancedconcepts.ch) (217.193.147.27) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 06:38:04 -0000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:22:27 +0200 Message-ID: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770FA@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy thread-index: AcVHt5HWbh0Km8OVTsW/FOuTCnS1ZQAE+tqg From: "Stefan Csomor" To: X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: RE: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi > > I think you are right about the amount of time it will take to > > get this off the ground, and the sort of approach it will need. > > > Exactly. It is imperative that we explore new approaches. I am glad > that this time around, contrary to after the 2.4 release, there seems > to be a lot of support for this. for me it is also a point in time in my life where I have to make decisions, I've been with wx for the last 7 years. I've turned 38 now, seen many frameworks, and still wx is lacking quite a few things that I used to have and like in other frameworks.=20 The same missing things that I have brought up every 2 years are still missing and I've not been able to convince core-dev that they should be incorporated. I have no problems waiting - which is what I did - but if I see that the chances for these changes are close to zero I have to rethink the situation. This is a democratic situation, I cannot force my view about the route to take, but I don't want to be a hostage of other people's views any longer either. I like spending time in technical discussions to arrive at a optimal, efficient and easy to understand piece of code, but wasting time again and again about supporting compiler x and y, crippling code just to make it work there as well, writing Win32 API imports by hand to support non-VC compilers for me it is just a waste of time. Having things in wx written by ourselves that are already written and better supported by other people are a waste as well. Do ourselves what we (assumingly) can do best and leave the rest to others (providing integration). So I think a few of us are ready for a change, it will be individually different changes and aims I guess, and I think we might just have to go on in several branches, to let our own ideas mature, see what the others are really aiming at. Best, Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidgets.org For additional commands, e-mail: wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org From - Sat Apr 23 00:15:08 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 1114240348.18121_0.gate X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Received: (qmail 18105 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:26 -0000 Delivered-To: alias-localdelivery-robin@alldunn.com Received: (qmail 18070 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:21 -0000 Received: from a.mx.sunsite.dk (news.dotsrc.org [130.225.247.88]) by gate.alldunn.com ([208.151.246.211]) with SMTP via TCP; 23 Apr 2005 07:12:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 39460 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:18 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 07:12:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28847 invoked by uid 43863); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact wx-discuss-help@lists.wxwidgets.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Delivered-To: mailing list wx-discuss@lists.wxwidgets.org Received: (qmail 28833 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:15 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 07:12:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 39223 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 07:12:15 -0000 Received: from mail.advancedconcepts.ch (HELO advanced-3ynlwj.advancedconcepts.ch) (217.193.147.27) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 07:12:11 -0000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:56:35 +0200 Message-ID: <834A07D804766B43A535AC6861D6D86770FC@mail.advancedconcepts.ch> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy thread-index: AcVHeDuFxjNZTZaYRoithuOpO9E+fwAV8ggA From: "Stefan Csomor" To: X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Subject: RE: [wx-discuss] Re: [wx-dev] Future release strategy X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on gate.alldunn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: Hi > >> I think this means I'm probably going to have to officially announce > >> that wxCocoa work is going to truly go at a snails pace (as if it > >> hasn't already). wxMac has been cleaned up so significantly with > >> this release that wxCocoa is not as important to me as it once was. > >> Of course this is only stating what is probably already obvious as > >> I've been working on these new ideas rather than wxCocoa off and on > >> for a year now. > >> > >> Writing wxCocoa has been one hell of a great experience. Every time > >> I write code for wxCocoa I can't help but thinking how great a > >> toolkit Cocoa is and how much better wxWidgets could be if I were to > >> borrow some ideas from Cocoa and Objective-C. > > > > I think wxCocoa is a very strategic thing to have, actually. While > > it's true that Carbon won't be going anyplace anytime soon, I can see > > that 3-4 years down the road OS X will be getting less and less > > dependent on Carbon-based apps and thus the Carbon API will likely get > > less and less testing, development, etc. When I made the decision on > > what I wanted to work on, it was basically a call of what I thought > > could give me a working app fastest. But the answer to that question > > is not always the same as what's best for wxWidgets in the long term. > > > The irony of it is that I started wxCocoa for exactly the same reason. > I thought that with a little community support I could develop it > faster than wxMac. I think if I had had just a little bit of support > from the community that it may have been a reality. I can't be sure of > that though.=20 this is true for any port, wxMac would be at a different place if it had as much contributions as msw, I would have welcomed your support and contributions in wxMac very much, but you wanted to do your own, which I can understand and yet I thought it was a pity, but it is the way OSS works.=20 The more carbon-cocoa interop we have now in the OS, the more these two ports can share common code, and even start melding, once I have ironed out eg CoreGraphics, you should be able to use it, once we have pImpls and factories we will be able to mix cocoa and carbon frames in one app. Best, Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.wxwidget