From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 11:08:20 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:08:19 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])LAA30507; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:08:19 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14962; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:09:31 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.162.215.68] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id A9E49F300CA; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:07:48 -0500 Message-ID: <049301bf8144$e7dd4320$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: "wxwin-users" , "wxwin-devel" , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes Date: Sun Feb 27 11:08:21 2000 Hi All, We have just moved the wxWindows mail list processors to wxwindows.org. The new addressses are: wx-announce@wxwindows.org wx-users@wxwindows.org wx-devel@wxwindows.org There is a web interface for each list where you can edit your subscription options, suspend delivery, unsubscribe, etc. You can get to them at: http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-announce http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:42:29 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])NAA31259; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:42:29 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16831; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:43:08 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.162.215.68] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE045FD00DE; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:41:56 -0500 Message-ID: <053001bf815a$6f346e10$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: "Gerhard Gruber" Cc: "wx-devel" , "wx-users" References: <049301bf8144$e7dd4320$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2000 > >We have just moved the wxWindows mail list processors to wxwindows.org. The > >new addressses are: > > > >wx-announce@wxwindows.org > >wx-users@wxwindows.org > >wx-devel@wxwindows.org > > What's the consequence for us? Do we have to subscribe newly, or are we moved > along? Sorry, I forgot to mention it. Everybody on the old lists are subscribed to the new ones. In fact, these messages have been sent to the new addresses. BTW, I should mention that I did not set the reply_goes_to_list setting. I went to do it and Mailman told me that some RFC strongly recommends against it. More details are here: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I can make the setting if people really want it, but personally I think it is just as easy to click the reply-to-all button and sometimes I really do want to reply only to the sender. Changing the list setting makes that really difficult. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 14:01:52 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:01:52 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) OAA31496 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:01:52 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id UAA08985 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:01:47 GMT Received: from club.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.2]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with SMTP id UAA02618 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:01:46 GMT From: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes In-Reply-To: <053001bf815a$6f346e10$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun Feb 27 14:01:53 2000 On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Robin Dunn wrote: > went to do it and Mailman told me that some RFC strongly recommends against > it. More details are here: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Well, the counter to *that* is at: http://www.metasystems.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml > I can make the setting if people really want it, but personally I think it is > just as easy to click the reply-to-all button and sometimes I really do want > to reply only to the sender. Changing the list setting makes that really > difficult. I *hate* *hate* *hate* it if I get sent two identical copies of the same message just because somebody didn't care about editing out the personal reply after "reply-to-all"-ing. The basic point is: are people likely to want to reply to the list only more often than they are to want to reply to the sender only ? I think the former, probably by an order of magnitude, and so Reply-To should be set ... Diana. From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 14:37:04 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:37:04 -0000 Received: from public.antipope.org (IDENT:jm@public.antipope.org [194.117.128.200])OAA31671 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:37:04 -0600 Received: (from jm@localhost) by public.antipope.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28999 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:37:01 GMT From: Jon Parry-McCulloch To: wx-devel Message-ID: <20000227203701.A28985@antipope.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i Subject: [wx-dev] wxZipInputStream Date: Sun Feb 27 14:37:05 2000 Greetings, Am I imagining things or did I read a week or two ago that someone had changed wxZipInputStream to work with virtual files and not just actual (FILE*) files? I no longer have my wx archives, so could someone confirm or deny this rumour. Ta. -- Jon Hello, I need in creation self-signed and not self-signed security certificates for inner needs. Is it possible to generate this certificates with ssleay? I can't find any information about it neither in ssleay distributivepage documentation nor on www.dejanews.com May be it is stupid question and I'm not understand some "main things"? In this case - pleace explain me it. -- Stunningly illiterate post to a mailing list From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 14:46:02 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:46:01 -0000 Received: from biguy.highrise.ca (root@biguy.highrise.ca [209.217.80.3]) OAA31778 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:46:01 -0600 Received: from biguy.highrise.ca (mountie@biguy.highrise.ca [209.217.80.3]) by biguy.highrise.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14483; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:45:45 -0500 Message-Id: <200002272045.PAA14483@biguy.highrise.ca> From: Aidan Van Dyk Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes To: dag1000@eng.cam.ac.uk cc: wx-devel@wxwindows.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Date: Sun Feb 27 15:07:52 2000 On 27 Feb, Diana Galletly wrote: > I *hate* *hate* *hate* it if I get sent two identical copies of the > same message just because somebody didn't care about editing out the > personal reply after "reply-to-all"-ing. > > The basic point is: are people likely to want to reply to the list only > more often than they are to want to reply to the sender only ? I think > the former, probably by an order of magnitude, and so Reply-To should be > set ... Hm... Many people filter, and only read lists occasionally. With reply to's going to the lists, they miss the discussion that they are involved in... We need the list copy as well as the personal copy. If getting two copies is a problem, filter them... a. -- Aidan Van Dyk Create like a god, aidan@highrise.ca command like a king, http://www.highrise.ca/ work like a slave. |\^/| |\^/| |\^/| |\^/| |\^/| |\^/| _|\| |/|_ _|\| |/|_ _|\| |/|_ _|\| |/|_ _|\| |/|_ _|\| |/|_ > C < > a < > n < > a < > d < > a < >_./|\._< >_./|\._< >_./|\._< >_./|\._< >_./|\._< >_./|\._< From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 15:19:04 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:19:04 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])PAA31940; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:19:04 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05599; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:19:44 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.162.215.68] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4A883900D4; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:18:32 -0500 Message-ID: <062701bf8167$eda8f1f0$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: Cc: "wx-devel" , "wx-users" References: <049301bf8144$e7dd4320$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> <3.0.3.32.20000227214231.00b7d3f0@mailhost.iies.es> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Sun Feb 27 15:19:05 2000 > > Please do it. We already had a poll here (well, one in wxwin-users and > one in wxwin-dev) and we decided that we wanted this to be that way. > If you don't, a lot of replies will go to the original sender only > and not to the list wihtout the user even noticing. I don't mind what > that RFC says, but I know what *we* said some time ago when that poll > was done. > Okay, done. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 15:20:15 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:20:15 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])PAA32013; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:20:15 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05894; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:20:56 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.162.215.68] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4E083B00D4; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:19:28 -0500 Message-ID: <062f01bf8168$0f395260$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: Cc: "wx-devel" , "wx-users" References: <3.0.3.32.20000227213845.00b7d1b0@mailhost.iies.es> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Sun Feb 27 15:20:17 2000 > > > >We have just moved the wxWindows mail list processors to wxwindows.org. The > >new addressses are: > > > >wx-announce@wxwindows.org > >wx-users@wxwindows.org > >wx-devel@wxwindows.org > > > > I assume old subscriptions are automatically transferred among the lists > (i.e. that we don't have to subscribe to the new ones now) and that both > will be maintained (and gated) in parallel for some time. > Yes. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 15:29:31 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:29:30 -0000 Received: from majordomo.vol.cz (smtp1.vol.cz [195.250.128.43]) PAA32219 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:29:30 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host smtp1.vol.cz [195.250.128.43] claimed to be majordomo.vol.cz Received: from volny.cz (datelc-101.vol.cz [212.20.103.102]) by majordomo.vol.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA86718; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:29:23 +0100 (CET) X-Envelope-To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Sender: vasek@majordomo.vol.cz Message-ID: <38B994F4.3499AB2F@volny.cz> From: Vaclav Slavik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) X-Accept-Language: Czech, cs, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jon Parry-McCulloch CC: wx-devel Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxZipInputStream References: <20000227203701.A28985@antipope.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun Feb 27 15:29:32 2000 Jon Parry-McCulloch wrote: > Am I imagining things or did I read a week or two ago that > someone had changed wxZipInputStream to work with virtual > files and not just actual (FILE*) files? Nonsense. Whatever you mean by "virtual file". From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 16:57:01 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:57:01 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) QAA32708 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:57:01 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id WAA13459 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:56:59 GMT Received: from club.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.2]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with SMTP id WAA03740 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:56:59 GMT From: Diana Galletly Reply-To: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000227231129.00847100@mailhost.iies.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun Feb 27 16:57:02 2000 [ don't know where to set the reply-path back to, so returning it back to wx-devel ... ] On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > At 15:45 27/02/00 -0500, you wrote: > >On 27 Feb, Diana Galletly wrote: > > > >> I *hate* *hate* *hate* it if I get sent two identical copies of the > >> same message just because somebody didn't care about editing out the > >> personal reply after "reply-to-all"-ing. > >> > >> The basic point is: are people likely to want to reply to the list only > >> more often than they are to want to reply to the sender only ? I think > >> the former, probably by an order of magnitude, and so Reply-To should be > >> set ... > > > >Hm... Many people filter, and only read lists occasionally. With > >reply to's going to the lists, they miss the discussion that they are > >involved in... We need the list copy as well as the personal copy. > > If you start a discussion in a mailing list it doesn't seem very smart > to filter all messages coming back from that mailing list, and if you > choose to do that, then that's your own choice and you are assumming > that you might be missing messages. Depends. My husband uses procmail to filter all his mail, but if he's started a discussion on a mailing-list, he expects to read that more frequently than usual. He then doesn't want an extra copy turning up in his "un-filtered" mailbox _as well_. It's the same problem as people replying in the newsgroup and by email, without saying that's what they've done -- OK, I'm in an intolerant mood this week, but that's likely to get me to ignore all future messages from them. (However he rarely got involved in discussions in the first place on this mailing-list -- apparently it required me, reading in real-time, to point out things he needed to rant about, because otherwise he just didn't bother looking in there :-() It's _possible_ to cope with discussions using a filter, just I don't happen to operate like that. I read most of my mail in pretty close to real time, the way it comes in at the moment -- if I started filtering it I'd miss an awful lot more messages, because I'd only choose to read urgent stuff sent to me directly most of the time. Diana. From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 17:13:59 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Sun, 27 Feb 2000 23:13:58 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])RAA00032 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:13:58 -0600 Received: from bill (iies252.iies.es [194.224.30.252]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA20794 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:17:02 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228001221.0087c9f0@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxWindows mail list changes In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.20000227231129.00847100@mailhost.iies.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun Feb 27 17:13:59 2000 At 22:56 27/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >[ don't know where to set the reply-path back to, so returning it >back to wx-devel ... ] > >On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > >> At 15:45 27/02/00 -0500, you wrote: >> >On 27 Feb, Diana Galletly wrote: >> > >> >> I *hate* *hate* *hate* it if I get sent two identical copies of the >> >> same message just because somebody didn't care about editing out the >> >> personal reply after "reply-to-all"-ing. >> >> >> >> The basic point is: are people likely to want to reply to the list only >> >> more often than they are to want to reply to the sender only ? I think >> >> the former, probably by an order of magnitude, and so Reply-To should be >> >> set ... >> > >> >Hm... Many people filter, and only read lists occasionally. With >> >reply to's going to the lists, they miss the discussion that they are >> >involved in... We need the list copy as well as the personal copy. >> >> If you start a discussion in a mailing list it doesn't seem very smart >> to filter all messages coming back from that mailing list, and if you >> choose to do that, then that's your own choice and you are assumming >> that you might be missing messages. > >Depends. My husband uses procmail to filter all his mail, but if he's >started a discussion on a mailing-list, he expects to read that more >frequently than usual. He then doesn't want an extra copy turning up >in his "un-filtered" mailbox _as well_. It's the same problem as people This is exactly what I was saying. Regards, G. -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 01:04:27 -0000 Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) TAA00279 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:04:27 -0600 Received: from ozemail.com.au (1Cust192.tnt5.syd2.da.uu.net [63.34.197.192]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA02271 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:04:17 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <38B9C994.530BEEB7@ozemail.com.au> From: Michael Bedward X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wxwin-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] wxGrid cursor keys prob Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2000 Hi Someone using the new grid has found that cursor keys don't work with the latest cvs grid code if the grid the child of a panel. I've just checked this with an app that has grids on notebook pages. Under wxMSW the grid isn't getting the cursor key presses. Instead they just shift the focus between the other controls on the notebook page. Under wxMotif and wxGTK the same app works without problems. Any clues about this ? (Borland's crappy debugger seems to have stopped working for me for some reason so I can't check it out). regards Michael =============================================================== Michael Bedward mbedward@ozemail.com.au Ecological consultancies http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mbedward Software development Web page design From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 19:30:59 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 01:30:57 -0000 Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) TAA00397 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:30:57 -0600 Received: from ozemail.com.au (1Cust192.tnt5.syd2.da.uu.net [63.34.197.192]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA16221 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:30:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <38B9CFD1.8755D1D3@ozemail.com.au> From: Michael Bedward X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wxwin-devel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-dev] Re: wxGrid autosizing Date: Sun Feb 27 19:30:59 2000 Vadim Zeitlin wrote: > > I've added AutoSize() method to wxGrid which should take care > of the initial bug table size problem under Motif (which is > probably related to some wxMotif bug as well, but the method > is still useful). It is supposed to set the initial grid size > to just fit its contents. > Hi Vadim Thanks for this. One suggestion/query: do you think that AutoSizeXXX() should have some option to _not_ set the size of the window ? I'd like to be able to use these functions for grids with a larger number of rows/cols. regards Michael =============================================================== Michael Bedward mbedward@ozemail.com.au Ecological consultancies http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mbedward Software development Web page design From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 20:17:16 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 02:17:16 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])UAA00644 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:17:16 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01746 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:18:28 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.162.215.68] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id AAADB1B00F0; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:17:17 -0500 Message-ID: <006501bf8191$a83e00e0$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: References: <38B9C994.530BEEB7@ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] wxGrid cursor keys prob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Sun Feb 27 20:17:16 2000 > Someone using the new grid has found that cursor keys don't work with > the latest cvs grid code if the grid the child of a panel. I've just > checked this with an app that has grids on notebook pages. Under wxMSW > the grid isn't getting the cursor key presses. Instead they just shift > the focus between the other controls on the notebook page. Under > wxMotif and wxGTK the same app works without problems. > > Any clues about this ? (Borland's crappy debugger seems to have stopped > working for me for some reason so I can't check it out). > We should probably set the wxWANTS_CHARS flag by default for the grid. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 21:02:24 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 03:02:23 -0000 Received: from front7m.grolier.fr (front7m.grolier.fr [195.36.216.57]) VAA00773 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:02:23 -0600 Received: from dell450 (ppp-159-27.villette.club-internet.fr [195.36.159.27]) EAA11705 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 04:02:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000b01bf8197$c5a47f00$581cfea9@dell450> From: "Lionel Allorge" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] function to resize a bitmap Date: Sun Feb 27 21:02:24 2000 Hi, Is there a function in wxWindows to resize a bitmap or pictmap to an arbitrary size ? For example : if the window's size change, I want my bitmap to change size accordingly Thank you. Lionel Allorge E-mail : lionel.allorge@lunerouge.com Site : http://www.lunerouge.com From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 21:55:40 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 03:55:39 -0000 Received: from fep9.mail.ozemail.net (fep9.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.103]) VAA00929 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:55:39 -0600 Received: from ozemail.com.au (1Cust67.tnt2.syd2.da.uu.net [63.12.1.67]) by fep9.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA18279 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:35 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <38B9F1BC.A8D3C89@ozemail.com.au> From: Michael Bedward X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] wxGrid cursor keys prob References: <38B9C994.530BEEB7@ozemail.com.au> <006501bf8191$a83e00e0$0301a8c0@easystreet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun Feb 27 21:55:41 2000 Robin Dunn wrote: > > > Someone using the new grid has found that cursor keys don't work with > > the latest cvs grid code if the grid the child of a panel. > > We should probably set the wxWANTS_CHARS flag by default for the grid. > Thanks. I added wxWANTS_CHARS to the style arg for all grid ctors but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I've got a grid on a notebook page with buttons beneath it. The arrow key presses are still just changing the focus between controls. Same thing happens for editable and read-only grids. regards Michael =============================================================== Michael Bedward mbedward@ozemail.com.au Ecological consultancies http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mbedward Software development Web page design From wx-devel-admin Sun Feb 27 23:51:13 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:51:12 -0000 Received: from public.antipope.org (IDENT:jm@public.antipope.org [194.117.128.200])XAA01167 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 23:51:12 -0600 Received: (from jm@localhost) by public.antipope.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA31386 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:51:11 GMT From: Jon Parry-McCulloch To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxZipInputStream Message-ID: <20000228055111.A31375@antipope.org> References: <20000227203701.A28985@antipope.org> <38B994F4.3499AB2F@volny.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <38B994F4.3499AB2F@volny.cz> Date: Sun Feb 27 23:51:13 2000 Voices in my ear tell me that Vaclav Slavik had this to say: > Jon Parry-McCulloch wrote: > > Am I imagining things or did I read a week or two ago that > > someone had changed wxZipInputStream to work with virtual > > files and not just actual (FILE*) files? > > Nonsense. Whatever you mean by "virtual file". What is nonsense? That I am asking if I imagined it or that I think such a thing is possible? I _meant_ that this class currently extracts files from a named archive; have I imagined it or has someone frigged it to do it from a file in memory, a data buffer? -- Jon "And who - in this damned universe - who can tell me why I should live for anything but for that which I want?" -- Ayn Rand We, the Living From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 05:41:40 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:41:39 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])FAA02260 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:41:39 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-11-190.easynet.co.uk [212.134.18.190]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 59F78F8568 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:41:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228113534.012629b0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] [wxAll] OGL moved Date: Mon Feb 28 05:41:40 2000 Hi, I've moved OGL (Object Graphics Library) from under utils to under src/ogl, include/wx/ogl, and samples/ogl. It's still made as a separate library from wxWin. I'd be very grateful if the necessary configure changes could be made. Many thanks, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 07:35:49 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:49 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])HAA02869 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:35:49 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-12-228.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.228]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 39FB9F848D for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:47 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228133422.01445990@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] [wxAll] doc'ing reminders Date: Mon Feb 28 07:35:50 2000 Hi, Just some reminders for when writing Latex for the wxWin docs: - put a blank line after a heading, e.g. \membersection - don't use e.g. \bf\it. Tex2RTF doesn't like it. Give each command its own pair of braces. - don't start a new convention for documenting arguments. Please use \wxheading{Parameters} and \docparam. - please leave a blank line at the end of the file. - a command must start or end with a space or \rtfsp if at the start or end of a line, otherwise you get a missing space in WinHelp/RTF (OK, Tex2RTF is very thick here). - excess space e.g. between sections should be reduced to one blank line. - please check it still compiles without errors; if it doesn't, comment out files and parts of files until it does work. - remember that English sentences usually end with a period (full stop). - labels shouldn't contain non-alphanumeric characters such as !, = Many thanks, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 07:44:24 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:44:24 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])HAA02971 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:44:24 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-12-228.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.228]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 859F7F8285 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:44:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout Date: Mon Feb 28 07:44:25 2000 Hi, utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 07:53:32 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:53:32 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])HAA03051 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:53:32 -0600 Received: from bill (iies246.iies.es [194.224.30.246]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02642 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:56:29 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 07:53:33 2000 At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think >drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... >I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the >sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? Regards, G. -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 08:05:22 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:05:22 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])IAA03157 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:05:22 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id IAA05221 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:05:21 -0600 Message-ID: <38BA81AC.A4F062FC@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [wx-dev] [wxOS2] Getting there Date: Mon Feb 28 08:05:23 2000 Was sick Friday, but did manage to finish all the coding in the port needed to get minimal to run, as far as I know. It all compiles as of late last night, but minimal still does not display anything. I imagine some Presentation Manager system calls are not coded exactly right and are failing. Haven't had a chance to debug yet, but just to let you know it is getting close. Whoever had the Watcom bug in one of the third party libraries still having it? From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 08:25:14 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:25:14 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])IAA03461 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:25:14 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id IAA05252 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:25:13 -0600 Message-ID: <38BA8654.EA8BB83C@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout References: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 08:25:14 2000 Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think > >drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... > >I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the > >sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. > > Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? > I agree. How many of these exotic controls are actually frequently used in business programming? No reason why a lot of this exotic, one-off stuff can't go into a /utils or /advanced widget subsystem instead of the core source. But then I speak from the perspective of a port developer trying to catch up to the others. I feel compelled to make sure every new widget/algorithim is compilable under OS/2 if it is in the core paths of /src somewhere. This, of course takes time away from me getting the basic stuff working. I think before new, exotic widgets and functions are added we need to ask "would this control or feature be in high demand by the vast body of business software developers?" If yes, then include it, if no, put it in a "neat stuff" place We need to remember, that if wxWindows is ever going to be a mainstay, big player, business GUI core development tool around the world, most software firms will have to be absolutely sure the whole thing is rock solid before use. The more "stuff" in the library, the more extensive the testing will have to be and the more extensive regression testing for each new release will have to be, thus the more cost and thus the greater desire to pass in favor of some less expansive solution. > > Regards, > G. > > -- > Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia > > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 08:45:03 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:45:02 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])IAA03597 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:45:02 -0600 Received: from bill (iies251.iies.es [194.224.30.251]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08621; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:48:08 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228153848.00861a50@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxOS2] Getting there Cc: David Webster In-Reply-To: <38BA81AC.A4F062FC@bhmi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 08:45:03 2000 David, I found some bugs in your tif_os2.c file and reported them to you, but had no response. Did you get that mail? >Was sick Friday, but did manage to finish all the coding in the port >needed to get minimal to run, as far as I know. It all compiles as of >late last night, but minimal still does not display anything. I imagine >some Presentation Manager system calls are not coded exactly right and >are failing. Haven't had a chance to debug yet, but just to let you >know it is getting close. > >Whoever had the Watcom bug in one of the third party libraries still >having it? Regards, G. -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 08:45:03 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:45:03 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])IAA03601 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:45:03 -0600 Received: from bill (iies251.iies.es [194.224.30.251]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08625 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:48:09 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228154240.00867860@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> References: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) Date: Mon Feb 28 08:45:05 2000 Robin, Is that 'fancy' signature below absolutely necessary? I'd rather prefer not to have it, not only because I don't like it (I don't) but because it becomes a bit boring to see it in each of the 100 mails a day we are getting from the list. Regards, G. At 14:51 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think >>drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... >>I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the >>sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. > >Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? > >Regards, >G. > >-- >Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia > > >_______________________________________________ >wx-devel mailing list >wx-devel@wxwindows.org >http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel > -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:12:51 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:12:49 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) JAA03817 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:12:49 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id PAA01213 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:12:46 GMT Received: from club.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.2]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with SMTP id PAA18769 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:12:45 GMT From: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000228154240.00867860@mailhost.iies.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon Feb 28 09:12:51 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > Is that 'fancy' signature below absolutely necessary? I'd rather prefer > not to have it, not only because I don't like it (I don't) but because > it becomes a bit boring to see it in each of the 100 mails a day we are > getting from the list. I think it's quite handy, *particularly* in the case of wx-users. I always wished there'd been something telling people how to unsubscribe at the end of every mail, because then we'd have fewer morons sending unsubscribe messages to the list ... Diana. From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:50:21 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:50:20 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])JAA04066 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:50:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id JAA05407 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:50:20 -0600 Message-ID: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 09:50:21 2000 Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe and unsubscribe mail users. These "morons" are just doing what 99% of the rest of the world's mail lists are doing to subscribe and unsubscribe. Diana Galletly wrote: > On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > > > Is that 'fancy' signature below absolutely necessary? I'd rather prefer > > not to have it, not only because I don't like it (I don't) but because > > it becomes a bit boring to see it in each of the 100 mails a day we are > > getting from the list. > > I think it's quite handy, *particularly* in the case of wx-users. I > always wished there'd been something telling people how to unsubscribe > at the end of every mail, because then we'd have fewer morons sending > unsubscribe messages to the list ... > > Diana. > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:51:57 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:51:52 -0000 Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) JAA04104 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:51:52 -0600 Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])QAA96314 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:51:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (IDENT:zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.7])id QAA06206 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:51:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from (zeitlin@localhost) by seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (8.8.7/jtpda-5.1) id QAA06162 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:51:44 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <38B9CFD1.8755D1D3@ozemail.com.au> Sender: zeitlin@lpthe.jussieu.fr From: Vadim Zeitlin To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: RE: [wx-dev] Re: wxGrid autosizing Date: Mon Feb 28 09:51:57 2000 On 28-Feb-00 Michael Bedward wrote: > Thanks for this. One suggestion/query: do you think that AutoSizeXXX() > should have some option to _not_ set the size of the window ? Yes, I do - I just didn't have time to do it Friday evening. I will do it right now. Regards, VZ From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:52:03 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:52:02 -0000 Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])JAA04148 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:52:02 -0600 Received: from volny.cz (datela-1-3-91.vol.cz [212.20.97.237]) by smtp3.vol.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA84871 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:50:42 +0100 (CET) X-Envelope-To: Sender: vasek@smtp3.vol.cz Message-ID: <38BA9255.65EFC803@volny.cz> From: Vaclav Slavik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) X-Accept-Language: Czech, cs, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] wxZipInputStream References: <20000227203701.A28985@antipope.org> <38B994F4.3499AB2F@volny.cz> <20000228055111.A31375@antipope.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 09:52:03 2000 Jon Parry-McCulloch wrote: > > Nonsense. Whatever you mean by "virtual file". > > What is nonsense? That I am asking if I imagined it or that That anything changed regarding wxZipInputStream's files handling. > I think such a thing is possible? > > I _meant_ that this class currently extracts files from a > named archive; have I imagined it or has someone frigged it > to do it from a file in memory, a data buffer? If your question is if it can work with wxFSFile or wxInputStreams, then no, it can't. It only works with file accesible via FILE*. VS From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:52:26 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:52:25 -0000 Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) JAA04197 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:52:25 -0600 Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])QAA96479 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:52:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (IDENT:zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.7])id QAA06214 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:52:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from (zeitlin@localhost) by seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (8.8.7/jtpda-5.1) id QAA06166 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:52:20 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <000b01bf8197$c5a47f00$581cfea9@dell450> Sender: zeitlin@lpthe.jussieu.fr From: Vadim Zeitlin To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: RE: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] function to resize a bitmap Date: Mon Feb 28 09:52:27 2000 On 28-Feb-00 Lionel Allorge wrote: > Is there a function in wxWindows to resize a bitmap or pictmap to an > arbitrary size ? Use wxImage. HTH, VZ From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 09:55:09 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:55:08 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) JAA04272 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:55:08 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id PAA04740 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:55:06 GMT Received: from tw100.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@tw100.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.17.40]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id PAA20205 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:55:05 GMT From: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) In-Reply-To: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon Feb 28 09:55:09 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe and unsubscribe > mail users. These "morons" are just doing what 99% of the rest of the > world's mail lists are doing to subscribe and unsubscribe. Hmmm, all the mailing lists I'm on and have been on have used that method to subscribe and unsubscribe users. I know I'm living in the 19th Century, where people cared about doing things *properly*, but still ... the day I stop caring about doing things properly is the day I might as well shoot myself. Diana. From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:02:00 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:01:59 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])KAA04352 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:01:59 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-11-176.easynet.co.uk [212.134.18.176]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BB7F5F83AB for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:01:54 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228155928.01443cf0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> References: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 10:02:00 2000 At 14:51 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think >>drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... >>I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the >>sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. > >Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? No, but this one has been around for ages and some people have found it useful, plus it's a pain having a separate hierarchy for such a small class. And yes, I think it's useful for visualisation of hierarchical data in 'business programming' (whatever that actually defines...) Trees are useful, hence the fact we already have a somewhat more formalised way of visualising them (wxTreeCtrl). Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:19:46 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:19:42 -0000 Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) KAA04491 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:19:42 -0600 Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])RAA08638 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:19:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (IDENT:zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.7])id RAA06950 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:19:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from (zeitlin@localhost) by seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (8.8.7/jtpda-5.1) id RAA10311 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:19:31 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <38B9F1BC.A8D3C89@ozemail.com.au> Sender: zeitlin@lpthe.jussieu.fr From: Vadim Zeitlin To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxMSW] wxGrid cursor keys prob Date: Mon Feb 28 10:19:46 2000 On 28-Feb-00 Michael Bedward wrote: > Thanks. I added wxWANTS_CHARS to the style arg for all grid ctors but it > doesn't seem to make any difference. Did you add it to wxGridWindow as well? > I've got a grid on a notebook page with buttons beneath it. The arrow > key presses are still just changing the focus between controls. This is strange... Could you please send me some sample code? Thanks, VZ From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:28:04 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:28:04 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])KAA04637 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:28:04 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id KAA05476 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:28:03 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAA31F.4F32D6EB@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout References: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> <3.0.1.32.20000228155928.01443cf0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 10:28:05 2000 THis is where I part a bit from the group, I guess. I have written literally hundreds of front end business apps in windows and OS/2 over the past 15-20 years. They are almost all, relatively simple systems management or database front ends that are inventory control, shipping/receiveing, sales orders, accounting, banking transaction account management, travel industry reservations etc. They are all basically a main frame window with a menubar, maybe a toolbar, scrollbars, and a status line and are largely dialog driven. Occasionally you may see a Windows Explorer type tree control. But I'd venture to say most (90%+) of the internal apps written for business are simple frame window based, with dialogs using only what I call "common controls" (i.e. buttons, edit fields, static controls, list/combo boxes) and that's it. They may have an installation script that uses a slider but that's about as "fancy" as they ever get. If they use an image at all it is a splash screen or background bitmap and that is about it. All the other stuff like all the grids, floating toolbars, multipaged dialogs (notebooks), owner drawn buttons/lists/menues, and complex graphics implementations, while wonderful, and very nice, are basically what I call "fluff" or "window dressing". But this is where the vast bulk of effort seems to take place. I'm sure some here are writing the next AutoCad or CorelDraw or Graphical Shop Floor simulations , but the vast bulk of business programming on a GUI are boring, very basic, user interfaces frontending database management apps, doing the mundane work of business infrastructure. I am quite confident that if I put out a wxOS2 with nothing but a frame window, dialog, and common control support with a useable TCP/IP sockets implementation. I'd satisfy 95% or more of the needs of what is being done in OS/2 (and probably Windows/Linux) today. I know for certain with that I could get rid of all my HTML/Javascript browser junk we are shipping today so that we can have a platform independent GUI front end to our software. Enough ramble, I guess. Julian Smart wrote: > At 14:51 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: > >At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: > >>Hi, > >> > >>utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think > >>drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... > >>I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the > >>sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. > > > >Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? > > No, but this one has been around for ages and some people have found it > useful, plus it's a pain having a separate hierarchy for such a small > class. And yes, I think it's useful for visualisation of hierarchical data > in 'business programming' (whatever that actually defines...) Trees are > useful, hence the fact we already have a somewhat more formalised way of > visualising them (wxTreeCtrl). > > Regards, > > Julian > ======================================================================== > Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk > 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk > Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 > U.K. > LE15 9SG > ======================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:45:31 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:45:31 -0000 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6])KAA04756 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:45:31 -0600 Received: from remote142-18.home.uni-freiburg.de (ruf.uni-freiburg.de) [132.230.142.18] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 12PTIX-00001r-00; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:45:29 +0100 Sender: robert Message-ID: <38BAB25B.981DEED4@ruf.uni-freiburg.de> From: Robert Roebling Organization: University of Freiburg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 10:45:32 2000 David Webster wrote: > Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe > and unsubscribe mail users. I don't think do at all, Robert From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:57:51 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:57:50 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])KAA04833 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:57:50 -0600 Received: from bill (iies221.iies.es [194.224.30.221]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27651 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:00:55 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228175402.00d257c0@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000228155928.01443cf0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> References: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 10:57:51 2000 At 15:59 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >At 14:51 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >>At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >>>Hi, >>> >>>utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think >>>drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... >>>I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the >>>sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. >> >>Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? > >No, but this one has been around for ages and some people have found it >useful, plus it's a pain having a separate hierarchy for such a small In fact I wasn't asking specifically for this one (only) but for wxGLCanvas, wxMMedia, wxOGL as well. What about maintaining a 'parallel' source tree for utils? I mean, have src/whatever, include/wx/whatever, but _not_ in the same place as core wxWindows. This way, if you want, you can get package xxx and unzip/untar/ it in the wxWindows base dir and files will go in the standard src/ etc. subdirectories, but we don't ship all these with a normal wxWindows distribution (this is my main concern here). Regards, G. -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 10:58:07 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:58:06 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])KAA04872 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:58:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id KAA05522 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:58:06 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAAA29.ABFA0F36@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> <38BAB25B.981DEED4@ruf.uni-freiburg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 10:58:07 2000 Well every mailing list I am on, OS/2 and Linux, I send an email in to subscribe and then get a sign-up response, which I return if I really want to subscribe and then send an e-mail with unsubscribe in the subject to unsubscribe. That is on literally ALL of the lists I am on or have ever been on. What we have is unique to my experience (much nicer, but still different and non-standard). To call the casual user on the user's list a "moron" is a sure fire way to shoo prospective wxWindows users away as we come across looking like a collection of snobbish jerks. Robert Roebling wrote: > David Webster wrote: > > > Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe > > and unsubscribe mail users. > > I don't think do at all, > > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:11:09 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:11:09 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])LAA04977 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:11:09 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id LAA05532 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:11:08 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAAD37.DEFF16CE@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout References: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> <3.0.3.32.20000228175402.00d257c0@mailhost.iies.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 11:11:09 2000 Couldn't agree more. We now have a wxBase. Just wish we had a wxGUICore that was the bare minimum for a functional GUI framework. All the other "stuff" could go somewhere else. As I responded to Julian, the vast bulk of business programming on GUI's today around the world probably only need the basics. As it is I feel compelled to ensure that everything in src compiles under OS/2 in order to have a complete package, even if many of the actual calls are just stubbed out. So anytime anyone add something to common or generic (or even msw for that matter) I feel it necessary to at least included it in OS/2 at a compilable level. But even that takes a lot of time and then anytime someone makes a change I have to ensure it stay compilable. A lot of work for someone who is just doing this on his own time at night and on the weekends. Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > At 15:59 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: > >At 14:51 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: > >>At 13:42 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>utils/wxtree has been a bit out on a limb for a long time and I think > >>>drawing trees is general enough for it to be included in src/generic, so... > >>>I've put it there (with a wxUSE_TREELAYOUT setup.h setting). Plus the > >>>sample is now in samples/treelay. I hope this is OK. > >> > >>Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? > > > >No, but this one has been around for ages and some people have found it > >useful, plus it's a pain having a separate hierarchy for such a small > > In fact I wasn't asking specifically for this one (only) but for wxGLCanvas, > wxMMedia, wxOGL as well. > > What about maintaining a 'parallel' source tree for utils? I mean, have > src/whatever, include/wx/whatever, but _not_ in the same place as core > wxWindows. This way, if you want, you can get package xxx and unzip/untar/ > it in the wxWindows base dir and files will go in the standard src/ > etc. subdirectories, but we don't ship all these with a normal wxWindows > distribution (this is my main concern here). > > Regards, > G. > -- > Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia > > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:12:07 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:12:06 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])LAA05017 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:12:06 -0600 Received: from bill (iies145.iies.es [194.224.30.145]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00228 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:15:11 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228180947.00d26300@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) In-Reply-To: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 11:12:07 2000 At 09:54 28/02/00 -0600, you wrote: >Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe and unsubscribe >mail users. I don't think so; all the lists I'm subscribed to work this way. >These "morons" are just doing what 99% of the rest of the >world's mail lists are doing to subscribe and unsubscribe. When people subscribe they get a mail explaining what to do to unsubscribe, and they are adviced to keep that mail, and that mail also mentions that unsubscribe request should not be sent to the list, so these "morons" seem to be really a bit "moron", or maybe just they don't care about bothering the rest of us; I don't really care which of these two is actually the case. Regards, G. -- Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:23:18 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:23:18 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])LAA05154 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:23:18 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00996 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:24:25 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.210.37.26] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id AF0E2990044; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:26 -0500 Message-ID: <011901bf8210$3a5e00f0$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: References: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> <38BAB25B.981DEED4@ruf.uni-freiburg.de> <38BAAA29.ABFA0F36@bhmi.com> Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Mon Feb 28 11:23:19 2000 > Well every mailing list I am on, OS/2 and Linux, I send an email in to > subscribe and then get a sign-up response, which I return if I really > want to subscribe and then send an e-mail with unsubscribe in the > subject to unsubscribe. That is on literally ALL of the lists I am on > or have ever been on. What we have is unique to my experience (much > nicer, but still different and non-standard). All the lists I have seen use a different address for admin requests such as subscription. Mailman has one too, for example: wx-devel-request@wxwindows.org. Another nice thing about Mailman is that it will attempt to recognise admin requests sent to the regular address. So what is the consensus? I can remove or modify the footers very easily. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:24:51 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:24:51 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])LAA05201 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:24:51 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id LAA05551 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:24:50 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAB06E.6F52847E@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: <3.0.3.32.20000228180947.00d26300@mailhost.iies.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 11:24:52 2000 I don't know about you, but it seems to me we have a pretty "thin-skinned" group here that is quite intolerant of just about anything these days. We have people wanting to "ban CVS write access" for occasional submission errors, people that criticize or poke fun of other's coding, calling casual users "morons" even if they are; and just a general perception of aloofness, arrogance and/or intolerance. We could stand to "lighten up" a bit. As the popularity of wxWindows grows, more and more "morons" are going to start using it and some of those "morons" are even going to attempt to develop some wxWindows things. The bigger net we cast the lower the common user/developer denominator is going to get. We can either "learn to live with it" or run these people off with our attitude. Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia wrote: > At 09:54 28/02/00 -0600, you wrote: > >Actually we are quite non-standard in the way we subscribe and unsubscribe > >mail users. > > I don't think so; all the lists I'm subscribed to work this way. > > >These "morons" are just doing what 99% of the rest of the > >world's mail lists are doing to subscribe and unsubscribe. > > When people subscribe they get a mail explaining what to do to unsubscribe, > and they are adviced to keep that mail, and that mail also mentions that > unsubscribe request should not be sent to the list, so these "morons" > seem to be really a bit "moron", or maybe just they don't care about > bothering the rest of us; I don't really care which of these two is > actually the case. > > Regards, > G. > > -- > Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia > > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:26:32 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:26:32 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])LAA05264 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:26:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id LAA05555 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:26:31 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAB0D3.3B0EA084@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: <38BA9A47.A50EC5BF@bhmi.com> <38BAB25B.981DEED4@ruf.uni-freiburg.de> <38BAAA29.ABFA0F36@bhmi.com> <011901bf8210$3a5e00f0$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 11:26:33 2000 Personally, I don't care one way or the other. Robin Dunn wrote: > > Well every mailing list I am on, OS/2 and Linux, I send an email in to > > subscribe and then get a sign-up response, which I return if I really > > want to subscribe and then send an e-mail with unsubscribe in the > > subject to unsubscribe. That is on literally ALL of the lists I am on > > or have ever been on. What we have is unique to my experience (much > > nicer, but still different and non-standard). > > All the lists I have seen use a different address for admin requests such as > subscription. Mailman has one too, for example: > wx-devel-request@wxwindows.org. Another nice thing about Mailman is that it > will attempt to recognise admin requests sent to the regular address. > > So what is the consensus? I can remove or modify the footers very easily. > > -- > Robin Dunn > Software Craftsman > robin@AllDunn.com > http://AllDunn.com/robin/ > http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:35:48 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:35:48 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) LAA05344 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:35:48 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id RAA12660 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:35:46 GMT Received: from tw100.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@tw100.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.17.40]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id RAA22973 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:35:45 GMT From: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) In-Reply-To: <38BAAA29.ABFA0F36@bhmi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon Feb 28 11:35:49 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > Well every mailing list I am on, OS/2 and Linux, I send an email in to > subscribe and then get a sign-up response, which I return if I really > want to subscribe and then send an e-mail with unsubscribe in the > subject to unsubscribe. That is on literally ALL of the lists I am on > or have ever been on. What we have is unique to my experience (much > nicer, but still different and non-standard). To call the casual user > on the user's list a "moron" is a sure fire way to shoo prospective > wxWindows users away as we come across looking like a collection of > snobbish jerks. Oh, FCOL. I have never been on a mailing-list where one sends a message saying "unsubscribe" to the actual list, one sends it to a special address, which is the list address with -request appended to it. Plus, I was talking on devel, *not* users. I'm not going to shoo away any prospective users away by mentioning my irritation with how people behave wrt mailing-lists here. Calling them morons is, quite frankly, mild compared with what I'd like to do with them (reinstating the "unsubscribers" mailing list and subscribing them all to it). If they can't be bothered to read simple instructions (that they get sent, for God's sake) and decide to burden the rest of us with having to inform them later, then they are selfish. It's good protocol to inform oneself rather than expecting to impose on the good nature of other people. But then, I'm just a snobbish jerk, so what would I know ? Diana. From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:43:22 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:43:21 -0000 Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) LAA05468 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:43:21 -0600 Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])SAA80396 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:43:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (IDENT:zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.7])id SAA08551 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:43:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from (zeitlin@localhost) by seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (8.8.7/jtpda-5.1) id SAA10771 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:43:19 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000228113534.012629b0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Sender: zeitlin@lpthe.jussieu.fr From: Vadim Zeitlin To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: RE: [wx-dev] [wxAll] OGL moved Date: Mon Feb 28 11:43:23 2000 On 28-Feb-00 Julian Smart wrote: > I've moved OGL (Object Graphics Library) from under utils to under src/ogl, > include/wx/ogl, and samples/ogl. It's still made as a separate library from > wxWin. I'd be very grateful if the necessary configure changes could be made. Could we _please_ postpone moving other things around until 2.2? I don't see any advantage of doing it at all nor especially right now and I certainly think that it's better not to change anything like this before the release. Thank you, VZ From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:48:18 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:48:17 -0000 Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) LAA05535 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:48:17 -0600 Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])SAA84947 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:48:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (IDENT:zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.7])id SAA08620 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:48:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from (zeitlin@localhost) by seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (8.8.7/jtpda-5.1) id SAA10787 for wx-devel@wxwindows.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:48:15 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Sender: zeitlin@lpthe.jussieu.fr From: Vadim Zeitlin To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: > /dev/null (was: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin)) Date: Mon Feb 28 11:48:19 2000 On 28-Feb-00 Diana Galletly wrote: > But then, I'm just a snobbish jerk, so what would I know ? I find it especially amusing to find such qualifiers in Mr Webster's reply. Oh well... VZ From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:52:02 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:52:01 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])LAA05604 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:52:01 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id LAA05594 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:52:01 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAB6CC.CD289F89@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 11:52:02 2000 Fine, then I'll consider myself to be a moron..... Diana Galletly wrote: > On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > > > Well every mailing list I am on, OS/2 and Linux, I send an email in to > > subscribe and then get a sign-up response, which I return if I really > > want to subscribe and then send an e-mail with unsubscribe in the > > subject to unsubscribe. That is on literally ALL of the lists I am on > > or have ever been on. What we have is unique to my experience (much > > nicer, but still different and non-standard). To call the casual user > > on the user's list a "moron" is a sure fire way to shoo prospective > > wxWindows users away as we come across looking like a collection of > > snobbish jerks. > > Oh, FCOL. I have never been on a mailing-list where one sends a message > saying "unsubscribe" to the actual list, one sends it to a special > address, which is the list address with -request appended to it. > > Plus, I was talking on devel, *not* users. I'm not going to shoo away > any prospective users away by mentioning my irritation with how people > behave wrt mailing-lists here. > > Calling them morons is, quite frankly, mild compared with what I'd like > to do with them (reinstating the "unsubscribers" mailing list and > subscribing them all to it). If they can't be bothered to read simple > instructions (that they get sent, for God's sake) and decide to burden > the rest of us with having to inform them later, then they are selfish. > It's good protocol to inform oneself rather than expecting to impose > on the good nature of other people. > > But then, I'm just a snobbish jerk, so what would I know ? > > Diana. > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list > wx-devel@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 11:55:04 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:55:04 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])LAA05660 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:04 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id LAA05599 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:03 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAB783.9F835784@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] OGL moved References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 11:55:04 2000 I agree. If we are going to move everything around and begin to "modularlize" the project more, we should do it at a presribe time as part of a dedicated effort, well announced and planned for. I've just about got minimal running on OS/2 and I really don't want to take a day or more now to redo all my .icc files and such. Vadim Zeitlin wrote: > On 28-Feb-00 Julian Smart wrote: > > I've moved OGL (Object Graphics Library) from under utils to under src/ogl, > > include/wx/ogl, and samples/ogl. It's still made as a separate library from > > wxWin. I'd be very grateful if the necessary configure changes could be made. > > Could we _please_ postpone moving other things around until 2.2? I don't > see any advantage of doing it at all nor especially right now and I certainly > think that it's better not to change anything like this before the release. > > Thank you, > VZ > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list - (real_name)s@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 12:11:15 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:11:15 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])MAA06063 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:11:15 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id MAA05625 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:11:14 -0600 Message-ID: <38BABB4E.E50AC4D1@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: > /dev/null (was: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin)) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 12:11:15 2000 Well if the shoe fits...... This is probably the thinnest skinned group of professional individuals I've been around in a very long time. The whole group (me included at times) could stand to lighten up a good bit. I can promise you that within the next year I will upload to CVS: 1) Something that will break all ports 2) Introduce an odd bug 3) Overwrite someone else's recent change 4) Or be a completely idiotic implementation of something I can also wager that: 1) Someone will make fun of it 2) Someone will want to ban my write access for life. But I expect that now and it doesn't bother me much at all. Can't say the same for sure about the next wxWindows developer to stumble along down the road. Oh well, enough of this, we are all wasting each other's time too much as is..... Vadim Zeitlin wrote: > On 28-Feb-00 Diana Galletly wrote: > > But then, I'm just a snobbish jerk, so what would I know ? > > I find it especially amusing to find such qualifiers in Mr > Webster's reply. > > Oh well... > > VZ > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list - (real_name)s@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 12:18:56 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:18:56 -0000 Received: from rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk (root@rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.8.8]) MAA06180 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:18:56 -0600 Received: from cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk (via root@cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.9.4]) by rasp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id SAA16200 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:18:54 GMT Received: from club.eng.cam.ac.uk (via dag1000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.2]) by cramp.eng.cam.ac.uk with ESMTP id SAA24132 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:18:53 GMT From: Diana Galletly To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) In-Reply-To: <38BAB6CC.CD289F89@bhmi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon Feb 28 12:18:57 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > Fine, then I'll consider myself to be a moron..... Did I call you a moron ? No. Have you sent messages to the list saying "unsubscribe" ? Not to my knowledge. So why think I'm calling you a moron ? Why is expecting people to read stuff they get sent, which gives them useful information about the list they just subscribed to, beyond the pale ? It's basic common-sense on the planet most of us live on. _Plus_ on wxwin-users they get messages twice a month telling them how to unsubscribe. I can understand the initial message maybe getting lost in the mists of time, but surely it's not that hard to go back a couple of weeks to find out how to unsubscribe ? Diana. From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 12:36:54 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:36:54 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])MAA06353 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:36:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id MAA05654 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:36:53 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAC151.F9C5BEAD@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] signatures (Robin) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon Feb 28 12:36:55 2000 Diana Galletly wrote: > On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > > > Fine, then I'll consider myself to be a moron..... > > Did I call you a moron ? No. > > Have you sent messages to the list saying "unsubscribe" ? Not to my > knowledge. > Not this one, but many others like it. > > So why think I'm calling you a moron ? In a round about way you are. Since I have done it my self on more than one occasion and will undoubtedly do it again. And yes, I am an admitted moron for doing it. So what? > > > Why is expecting people to read stuff they get sent, which gives them > useful information about the list they just subscribed to, beyond the > pale ? It's basic common-sense on the planet most of us live on. > Yep. No problem with that at all. I know all that and I still occasionally do it anyway as do 99.9999% of the rest of the users in the world. Not intentionally, and not very often, but occasionally, yes. I'm a moron and can't help it. > > _Plus_ on wxwin-users they get messages twice a month telling them how > to unsubscribe. I can understand the initial message maybe getting lost > in the mists of time, but surely it's not that hard to go back a couple > of weeks to find out how to unsubscribe ? > I agree that it is kind of stupid to do this. I don't know about you but I get over 200 e-mails a day, some from mail lists like this one, but most are internal. Aside from having to read them I actually have development I have to get to get. Occasionally I'll subscribe to list for a while if I found it to be of interest, only to lose interest a while later. By then, in my usual mode of trying to cram 16 hours of work into 10-12hr day, I may do what first comes to mind as a standard "unsubscribe" routine, without taking the time to remember to read the unsubscribe instructions. Yes, this is "wrong", maybe, "selfish" yea, probably, maybe even "moronic". But most people on these lists are probably like me. Just too damned busy to care. They just want off the list and will eventually figure it out. Such is the state of "user" lists and it won't change any time soon. Suggest you thicken your skin and not let it bother so much. It damned sure doesn't bother me in the least. > > Diana. > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list - (real_name)s@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 13:57:21 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44] (may be forged))NAA06715 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:57:20 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-12-209.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.209]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ED40EF820B for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:55:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228195428.00b59aa0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart In-Reply-To: <38BAB857.1C7AF97B@ruf.uni-freiburg.de> References: <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> <3.0.1.32.20000228155928.01443cf0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] Re: [wxAll] wxTreeLayout Date: Mon Feb 28 13:57:21 2000 At 18:03 28/02/00 +0000, you wrote: >Julian Smart wrote: > >> > Do we really want *everything* to go into src/ ?? >> >> No, but this one has been around for ages and some people have >> found it useful, plus it's a pain having a separate hierarchy for >> such a small class. > >I agree as far as wxTreeLayout is concerned, but OGL is 500 KB of >source code and it would seem OK to ask before doing such a change. Yes, I certainly wouldn't want OGL to be compiled as standard, hence it's got its own makefile still. But people seemed to be gravitating towards having extra libraries under src and include/wx, even if they were still separate as far as the makefiles were concerned. I hope I read the signs correctly... >I wonder why you added the glcanvas sources to the main source >directory, though. How many times in the course of last year >have written that I don't want wxGTK to depend on other >libraries, and now you just added Mesa or OpenGl - and these >two are still binary incompatible so I really wonder what your >plan was, Sorry -- this seemed such a logical step that I changed it first, and asked questions later. glcanvas had its own hierarchy of Windows, GTK and Motif files just for 1 source file and a header which seemed like a pain to maintain (and a pain for user apps to set include and lib paths). This way we eliminate lots of makefile complications. Also OpenGL compatibility seems to be a prerequisite for a number of wxWindows users so we may as well have it obviously 'central'. But I thought the way it's built can still be as before, as an option. Only I forgot that if wxUSE_GLCANVAS is 0 as standard, then to build it in the same way as before we would need to redefine wxUSE_GLCANVAS locally per app. Sorry about that, I didn't think it through properly. Say we have a symbol such as wxUSE_GLCANVAS_STATICALLY, that's defined by the app makefile. This will override the wxUSE_GLCANVAS setting and compile it. So we have in glcanvas.cpp: #if wxUSE_GLCANVAS || wxUSE_GLCANVAS_STATICALLY .... #endif Then the user can choose either to simply set wxUSE_GLCANVAS to 1 in configure or setup.h; or otherwise to compile and link glcanvas.o into the app. Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 14:14:21 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:14:21 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])OAA06820 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:21 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12373 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:15:28 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.210.37.26] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id A727885012E; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:14:31 -0500 Message-ID: <027501bf8228$1fb101e0$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: "wx-devel" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [wx-dev] EVT_CHAR_HOOK Date: Mon Feb 28 14:14:21 2000 The docs for EVT_CHAR_HOOK seem to imply that all keys/chars can be hooked by the top-level windows. But since wxKeyboardHook uses wxCharCodeMSWToWX to decide if an event should be sent it is not sending them for most ASCII keys. Which is right? -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 14:47:58 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:47:58 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])OAA07038 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:47:58 -0600 Received: (qmail 13302 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 20:47:57 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13299 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 20:47:56 -0000 Received: from mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de (@129.187.254.101) by md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 20:47:56 -0000 Received: from sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de by mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de with ESMTP for wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:47:54 +0100 Received: from localhost (roebling@localhost) by sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA11690 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:47:30 +0100 (MET) From: Robert Roebling To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de In-Reply-To: <38BAB54D.2F2A53A7@bhmi.com> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Subject: [wx-dev] Re: wxWin modularity (long) Date: Mon Feb 28 15:13:51 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > Nice post. I agree. the Debug wx.lib for OS/2 visualage V3.0 is now at > 41MB and 36 MB for VisualAge 4.0. The Linux kernel has a binary size of 270 MB when compiled with full debug information (or so I heard), but you donīt have to compile it that way, neither do you have to compile all of wxWindows in debug mode, I suppose. You can use the #if wxUSE_XXX as well and compile without full debug info only where necessary. I developped wxGTK from scratch on a K5 with now 64 MB RAM and 133 Mhz clock speed and never felt like suffering. I donīt see why your position is so fundamentally different. I know that wxWindows today is more and things are different, but hardly so different that a complete redesign is required - maybe I am wrong. BTW, I am not aware of other projects splitting up their library like that, and the one I know (GNOME) is a good example of how not to do it. Just read their recent "Master Plan" and burst out in laughter. Robert Robert Roebling From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 14:36:05 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:36:04 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])OAA06923 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:36:04 -0600 Received: (qmail 13138 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 20:36:03 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13135 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 20:36:02 -0000 Received: from mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de (@129.187.254.101) by md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 20:36:02 -0000 Received: from sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de by mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de with ESMTP for wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:36:01 +0100 Received: from localhost (roebling@localhost) by sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA10419 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:35:37 +0100 (MET) From: Robert Roebling To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de In-Reply-To: Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Subject: [wx-dev] Re: wxWin modularity (long) Date: Mon Feb 28 15:13:52 2000 On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Vadim Zeitlin wrote: > 1. program start up time: > > but Robert "doesn't like" delayed initialization > and so wxGTK doesn't follow this trend. I donīt like it in the one example case where I gave that answer because there it would mean that the program would come to a stop in the middle of execution and quite probably during start-up as well, given how often images are used in wxWindows. > Robert, you will realize this problem with your SpeakFreely > port anyhow (great project BTW!) as we quickly did with > Karsten and M. Admittedly, M is a big program so, like > Netscape, it's ok that it takes some time to load - but > your app will probably be much smaller and you won't like > that it takes ages to load. Thank god I can compile out much stuff or link it dynamically. > 2. compile time Seems like a necessary evil. If you donīt want to compile wxGrid, configure it out, same for wxHTML and others. > I also fail to understand how will having several libraries make > wxWin more difficult to use than now. Really? Guess why installing GNOMEīs 23 libraries is more difficult than installing wxWindows. People ask me about GNOME features in wxGTK and (apart from much else) I can answer: "I am unable to just install it". > But I'm absolutely and definitely sure that this is a way to nowhere. It will lead to many features and an easy installation. I also donīt know how "wxWindows will collapse under its weight" will look like; if it compiles, nothing will happen. Robert Robert Roebling From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 14:50:02 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:50:01 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])OAA07072 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:50:01 -0600 Received: (qmail 13308 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 20:50:00 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13305 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 20:50:00 -0000 Received: from mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de (@129.187.254.101) by md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 20:50:00 -0000 Received: from sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de by mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de with ESMTP for wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:49:58 +0100 Received: from localhost (roebling@localhost) by sun2.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA12001 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:49:34 +0100 (MET) From: Robert Roebling To: wxwin-developers In-Reply-To: <200002282036.OAA06932@fripp.sourcegear.com> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [wx-dev] Re: Mail sent to wx-devel Date: Mon Feb 28 15:13:56 2000 I just got this post. What does it mean (Robin)? Robert On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 wx-devel-admin@wxwindows.org wrote: > Your mail to 'wx-devel' with the subject: > > Re: wxWin modularity (long) > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Implicit destination > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. > Robert Roebling From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 14:38:42 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:38:41 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])OAA06964 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:38:41 -0600 Received: (qmail 13157 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 20:38:41 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13153 invoked by uid 211); 28 Feb 2000 20:38:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000228203840.13152.qmail@md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de> From: Wolfram Gloger To: robin@alldunn.com CC: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de In-reply-to: <025d01bf8224$e08ca350$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> (robin@alldunn.com) References: <025d01bf8224$e08ca350$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> Subject: [wx-dev] Re: mailing list question Date: Mon Feb 28 15:13:59 2000 > > And another question: how long will the messages sent to > > the old address (@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de) will continue > > to be redirected to the new location? > > As long as they need to be I suppose. Wolfram, have you set up the old lists > to forward yet or are they still sending to the subscribers? Just set up all 3 lists to forward (this is sent to the old -developers address so it's a test also). I was away today, so sorry for the delay. Regards, Wolfram. From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 15:21:11 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:21:10 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com (mail1.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.6])PAA07498 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:21:10 -0600 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28505 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:22:20 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.210.37.26] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id A6D2DC300CE; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: <02fa01bf8231$76f09570$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: References: Subject: Re: [wx-dev] Re: Mail sent to wx-devel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Date: Mon Feb 28 15:21:11 2000 > > I just got this post. What does it mean (Robin)? > > Robert > It means that I need to figure out how to let Mailman accept messages forwarded from the old lists... -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 15:38:10 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:38:09 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])PAA07808 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:38:09 -0600 Received: (qmail 13529 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 21:38:08 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13526 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 21:38:07 -0000 Received: from mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de (@129.187.254.101) by md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 21:38:07 -0000 Received: from mail1.registeredsite.com by mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de with ESMTP for wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:38:06 +0100 Received: from mail.ALLDUNN.COM (mail.alldunn.com [208.242.114.26]) by mail1.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10383 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:39:15 -0500 Received: from rogue [209.210.37.26] by mail.ALLDUNN.COM (SMTPD32-6.00) id AAC95D40088; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:38:17 -0500 Message-Id: <031e01bf8233$d329acd0$1a25d2d1@jenkondev.com> From: "Robin Dunn" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [wx-dev] test message Date: Mon Feb 28 15:38:10 2000 this is a test message to be forwarded from the old list. -- Robin Dunn Software Craftsman robin@AllDunn.com http://AllDunn.com/robin/ http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ Check it out! From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 15:52:44 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:52:44 -0000 Received: from fw.bhmi.com ([208.248.174.66])PAA07915 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:52:44 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fripp.sourcegear.com: Host [208.248.174.66] claimed to be fw.bhmi.com Received: from bhmi.com (david.whq.bhmi.com [172.16.1.127] (may be forged)) ESMTP id PAA05867 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:52:43 -0600 Message-ID: <38BAEF34.9CDC3EC6@bhmi.com> From: David Webster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org Subject: Re: [wx-dev] Re: wxWin modularity (long) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon Feb 28 15:52:45 2000 We kind of work both ways here. We have one large, monolithic library and the same library divided into over 30 smaller libraries. On certain architectures one can run into a maximum number of namespaces or executable object size after a while. Look at MFC from Microsoft and IOCL from IBM. These are GUI libraries broken into a sizable number of smaller pieces. My personal opinion is wxWindows should be available as wxBase.lib, wxIPC.lib wxGUICore.lib, wxGUIAdvanced.lib, wxOGL.lib, wxHtml.lib, etc... You use (and maintain) only what you need. To most, the concept of wxUSE___ is very unusual. And in the non Unix world, people do not recompile everything on an install. They expect the libraries to come ready to use as is. I.E. no access or need to worry about wxUSE__ things in setup.h, but a modularized library where users have the option to link just base for console apps like NT services, or wxBase, wxGUICore for basic GUI frontends without the need to worry about all the opengl, grids, html, and other baggage they don't care about. I know all I will probably do short term in OS/2 is have a functional GUI framework with the basics, because that is about all the vast majority of OS/2 developers are interested in anyway (mostly IBM e-Commerce developers developing simple GUI front ends to e-Commerse systems management apps). I think I'm going to run out of gas long before I get to OpenGL and Grids and such. As for me, I am already breaking apart the library into small pieces and recoding much of it to conform to internal standards here. I already have wxBase.lib (wxObject, and a few other small things), wxUtil.lib, wxGdi.lib(basic bitmaps and image handlers), wxBaseApp.lib (wxWindow, wxFrame, wxDC, wxPanel, wxControl,...basically just basic common controls). And that is all we need here to use wxWindows. Robert Roebling wrote: > On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, David Webster wrote: > > > Nice post. I agree. the Debug wx.lib for OS/2 visualage V3.0 is now at > > 41MB and 36 MB for VisualAge 4.0. > > The Linux kernel has a binary size of 270 MB when compiled with full > debug information (or so I heard), but you donīt have to compile it > that way, neither do you have to compile all of wxWindows in debug > mode, I suppose. You can use the #if wxUSE_XXX as well and compile > without full debug info only where necessary. I developped wxGTK > from scratch on a K5 with now 64 MB RAM and 133 Mhz clock speed and > never felt like suffering. I donīt see why your position is so > fundamentally different. I know that wxWindows today is more and > things are different, but hardly so different that a complete redesign > is required - maybe I am wrong. > > BTW, I am not aware of other projects splitting up their library > like that, and the one I know (GNOME) is a good example of how not > to do it. Just read their recent "Master Plan" and burst out in > laughter. > > Robert > > Robert Roebling > > _______________________________________________ > wx-devel mailing list - (real_name)s@wxwindows.org > http://wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-devel From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 16:56:01 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:56:00 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])QAA08446 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:56:00 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-12-248.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.248]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 00EDCF8338 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228221949.01551700@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000228175402.00d257c0@mailhost.iies.es> References: <3.0.1.32.20000228155928.01443cf0@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 16:56:02 2000 At 17:54 28/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >What about maintaining a 'parallel' source tree for utils? I mean, have >src/whatever, include/wx/whatever, but _not_ in the same place as core >wxWindows. This way, if you want, you can get package xxx and unzip/untar/ >it in the wxWindows base dir and files will go in the standard src/ >etc. subdirectories, but we don't ship all these with a normal wxWindows >distribution (this is my main concern here). Better than individual utils/ items, but I think this will still be more of a configuration pain than having the headers under include/wx/. I don't actually see the advantage of having a separate hierarchy, since the scripts which determine the files that are in the main wxWin distribution can happily work whether the files are under wxWin or under utils. In other words, OGL will be distributed exactly as before -- i.e. in a separate archive -- but it just happens to be unarchived in a more intuitive place (IMO), and you won't have to add any extra search paths to your makefiles, because you use e.g. #include Personally I think that's reasonably neat. Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 16:56:02 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:56:01 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44])QAA08450 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:56:01 -0600 Received: from rose (tnt-12-248.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.248]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5265FF83E4 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:56:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228223007.01563a90@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Julian Smart Subject: Re: [wx-dev] [wxAll] wxTreeLayout In-Reply-To: <38BAAD37.DEFF16CE@bhmi.com> References: <3.0.3.32.20000228145108.00ad54f0@mailhost.iies.es> <3.0.1.32.20000228134256.01269660@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> <3.0.3.32.20000228175402.00d257c0@mailhost.iies.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon Feb 28 16:56:04 2000 At 11:15 28/02/00 -0600, you wrote: >Couldn't agree more. We now have a wxBase. Just wish we had a wxGUICore that was >the bare minimum for a functional GUI framework. All the other "stuff" could go >somewhere else. As I responded to Julian, the vast bulk of business programming >on GUI's today around the world probably only need the basics. As it is I feel >compelled to ensure that everything in src compiles under OS/2 in order to have a >complete package, even if many of the actual calls are just stubbed out. So Leaving aside my addition of treelay.cpp to src/generic which I thought wasn't too criminal and does cut down on some annoying admin of a separate hierarchy... also other toolkits have OpenGL support so that really is pretty core (but it's just an opinion)... Anyway, just because OGL sits under src instead of under utils/ogl/src doesn't mean you should feel obliged to compile it under OS/2. Same with [wx]MMedia[2] -- perhaps it feels uncomfortably like an invitation for it to work on all platforms, but it's more of a convenience thing. I don't feel that wxMmedia2 should be part of build-it-by-default wxWin just yet anyhow, because I've still failed to compile it and the docs, samples etc. will also take time to settle down. But putting it under src/mmedia, include/wx/mmedia makes it more conveniently accessible, I think. Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 16:57:22 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:57:21 -0000 Received: from md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de (md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de [138.245.179.2])QAA08551 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:57:21 -0600 Received: (qmail 13717 invoked by uid 410); 28 Feb 2000 22:57:20 -0000 Delivered-To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de Received: (qmail 13714 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 22:57:19 -0000 Received: from mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de (@129.187.254.101) by md.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 22:57:19 -0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.easynet.net by mailrelay1.lrz-muenchen.de with ESMTP for wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:57:18 +0100 Received: from rose (tnt-12-248.easynet.co.uk [212.134.20.248]) by chalfont.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9DDA2F84DB for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:56:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000228225244.01561510@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: julian.smart@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) To: wxwin-developers@wx.dent.med.uni-muenchen.de From: Julian Smart In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [wx-dev] Re: wxWin modularity (long) Date: Mon Feb 28 16:57:22 2000 > I know perfectly well that minimizing the size of executables >is not the main wxWin goal and, even if I don't like it that >much, I can live with it. I can't live with the often mentioned >idea that it doesn't matter at all as memory/disks grow bigger >and faster. I'm very keen on minimizing wxWin app size; and nothing I've changed recently should do that (oops, maybe I'm only speaking for systems where there are good optimizing compilers that throw away code not being used in the current app...) > However, I am not against adding things to wxWin. Quite on >the contrary, I'd like to see much more in it than it has >today, but we have to avoid that it collapses under its own >weight which will definitely happen at one point or another >if nothing is done. Agreed, we should definitely avoid that. It is irksome to me that wxWindows takes longer to compile now than it did in wxWin 1.0 days when I had a 386SX... but then I wouldn't want to go back to 1.0's feature set. > Guilhem's proposal about dynamically loading modules is >the ideal, but it surely won't be attained any time soon. >Yet, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to move >towards it. The idea I spoke about (for 2.4, please let >us pospone the discussions until then) was to allow >dynamically load wxImage handlers, for example. There are >(a few) zillion(s) different image formats and it would >be useful to support many of them - but we just can't add >everything to the core. So it would be extremely nice to >be able to load a (may be custom) image handler from a >DLL during the run time. I agree (up to a point -- I'm still against a proliferation of a lot of DLLs that mess up one's Windows directories). > Also, everyone seems to misunderstand the real reasons >why this is necessary. It is *not* to try save RAM or >disk space (I don't see any difference in RAM/disk >occupied by 3 libraries compared to the space needed >by 1 library including all of them). The real reasons Distributing DLLs with all possible functions in them does take up more disk space than a well-optimized statically linked .exe, I think that's probably undisputable at least on Windows. >are elsewhere and here are the main ones (in order of >increasing (!) importance): > >1. program start up time: > >Starting wxWin apps is becoming slower and slower as >more and more things are initialized before the user >code even starts to execute. I'm trying to do my best >to reduce this time for wxMSW using delayed initialization >for everything (and I belive it does make quite a big >difference), but Robert "doesn't like" delayed initialization >and so wxGTK doesn't follow this trend. The option would be good. Maybe we should have a switch to allow people to choose between delayed and up-front initialisation. >IMNSHO, initializing 183 different sunlibraries when >the app only uses just 2 or 3 of them is plainly stupid. >True, even without breaking library into pieces, it's >still possible to delay the initialization of compoments >until they are used for the first time, but they still >must be loaded from disk and there is nothing which can >be done about it except separating a component into a >separate DLL. Again, I suspect that statically-linked apps win here because only the wxModules that are referenced (indirectly) by the app will be included and run. However, an app *session* may happen not to use all modules. >2. compile time > >This one, in fact, is the biggest problem to me. I recompile >a library dozen times daily and I don't even dare to calculate >how much time it takes. I don't have enough money to buy the >latest quadri PIII 800 but even then it won't probably make much >difference as the size of wxWin will double again in a year >(run "wc -l" on the sources now, check out 2.0 and do it again: >you will be surprized by the results). > >Adding more and more code to the core will not reduce the >compilation times, unfortunately... Quite so; and it's one reason why I was nervous about splitting files up into platform-specific and base. I expect the arguments about maintainability do win over compile time, though. A long time ago we discussed on this list the possibility of writing wrapper .cpp files that would include a whole bunch of other .cpp files, thereby cutting down enormously on needless header recompilation (i.e. 10 files stuck together need only include wx.h once, not 10 times). So this technique could help a lot. The main files would of course be identical to what we have (maybe tweaked to allow concatenation), and there would be an alternative set of 'speedy' makefiles that would use concatenated files. >3. extensibility > >Having support for plug-ins would allow much greater flexibility >from the users point of view. I also mentioned wxImageHandler >example: wouldn't it be nice to be able to load at run-time DLLs >capable of reading some image formats not supported by the core >library? Perspectives are endless here... Absolutely. > I also fail to understand how will having several libraries make >wxWin more difficult to use than now. I'm not speaking about >having different packages: the wxWin makefile will compile and >install all the libs (of the same version) just like it does >now with the one lib. `wx-config --libs` will give the list >of all compiled/installed libraries just like it does now. Where >is the added complexity? The example of wxCore 3.0 and wxFoo 4.71 >with wxBar 1.78 is misleading - there will never be such a thing. >All libraries will always have the same version. And, once again, >wxPython installation complaints (justified IMHO) have nothing >to do with wxWin installation per se but with wxPython build.py >script. I'm sure with a lot of work on all makefiles, it could be done... > The only problem we may face is the one of backwards compatibility >and this one I think it's highly unlikely that anything which already >makes part of the library will be ever moved out of it. This is why >I object so much to inclusion of wxMMedia into the core (and OGL, >and tree layout, and ...) - it will be impossible to revert this >later (it will always be possible to add something to the library >though). To me, it's *just a place to put it* that's more convenient than the utils hierarchy. Whether it's compiled as a separate library or not, I don't care too much so long as it's no less convenient to users. Regards, Julian ======================================================================== Julian Smart mailto:julian.smart@ukonline.co.uk 12 North Street West http://www.anthemion.co.uk Uppingham, Rutland +44 (0)1572 822579 U.K. LE15 9SG ======================================================================== From wx-devel-admin Mon Feb 28 16:58:13 2000 Received: (qmail 123 invoked by alias); Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:58:13 -0000 Received: from dns.iies.es (dns.iies.es [194.224.30.2])QAA08620 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:58:13 -0600 Received: from bill (iies169.iies.es [194.224.30.169]) by dns.iies.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA05363 for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:00:16 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000228234220.00b0e8a0@mailhost.iies.es> X-Sender: guille@mailhost.iies.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) To: wx-devel@wxwindows.org From: Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia Subject: RE: [wx-dev] [wxAll] OGL moved In-Reply-To: